The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
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austendw
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by austendw »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 5:57 am Morton Smith characterized Deuteronomy as a forgery because of this. Native Hebrew speakers readily identify the differences. My Samaritan friend for instance, devoutly religious, admits Deuteronomy was not written by the same person. ... Our surviving copies of Deuteronomy deliberately "dialed down" the copying especially around chapters 20 where let's remember the ten commandments are poorly copies of Exodus.
Not sure I agree that the Deuteronomic version of the 10 Commandments is a "poor copy" and I have an innate reluctance to used words such as "forgery." But there can be no doubt that Deuteronomy "breathes a different air" from the tetrateuch that precedes it - notwithstanding redactional additions tying everything together.
Secret Alias
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by Secret Alias »

But surely if it came second and the former was from God, it's by man and a poor imitation of divine authorship.
austendw
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by austendw »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:03 am But surely if it came second and the former was from God, it's by man and a poor imitation of divine authorship.
See what you make of this essay by David Frankel: The Covenant in Moab: Deuteronomy Without Horeb
Secret Alias
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by Secret Alias »

I thought it was amazing. I love the Torah. It's so cool to have one centralized event as the focus of a religion. But here you see how efforts were made to "decentralize" the giving of the Law. Even when we read the text it's like we aren't allowed to get a clear picture. Doesn't the idea that the Torah was completed "wholecloth" seem utterly insipid? It was clearly problematic to see one power on the mountain and hear another in heaven.

I am always intrigued how knowledge of the two powers was passed on in spite of revisionary efforts like Deuteronomy. Thank you
austendw
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by austendw »

Secret Alias wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 7:45 pm I thought it was amazing. I love the Torah. It's so cool to have one centralized event as the focus of a religion. But here you see how efforts were made to "decentralize" the giving of the Law. Even when we read the text it's like we aren't allowed to get a clear picture. Doesn't the idea that the Torah was completed "wholecloth" seem utterly insipid? It was clearly problematic to see one power on the mountain and hear another in heaven.

I am always intrigued how knowledge of the two powers was passed on in spite of revisionary efforts like Deuteronomy. Thank you
On the other hand, there is a body of opinion suggesting that the law-giving at the mountain (Sinai/Horeb) was not actually part of the earliest narrative of the journey from Egypt to the Promised land. Here's another essay by Frankel: Judaism Without Sinai?
Secret Alias
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

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But the Jews and Samaritans had replica ten commandments. Had to have come from somewhere. It's like the Christians with their cross. No there's no Jesus on the crucifix necessarily. But the cross implies the crucifixion of Jesus the way the replica commandments imply Sinai.
austendw
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by austendw »

Secret Alias wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 3:41 pm But the Jews and Samaritans had replica ten commandments. Had to have come from somewhere. It's like the Christians with their cross. No there's no Jesus on the crucifix necessarily. But the cross implies the crucifixion of Jesus the way the replica commandments imply Sinai.
Hmmm. I'm not sure that replica ten commandments are like the Christian Cross. I don't know when the replica ten commandments began being a thing in synagogues. I have no idea what the date of the earliest known example is. All the ones I have seen are short abbreviations of the 10 commandments and are very late.
Secret Alias
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by Secret Alias »

In the temples.
austendw
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by austendw »

Secret Alias wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 2:29 am In the temples.
Evidence? Textual or otherwise?
Secret Alias
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by Secret Alias »

I'm in Europe but there is rabbinic evidence or testimony
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