The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
Secret Alias
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by Secret Alias »

Deflect. Divide. Distract. From what is an impossibly tight window for the "instant" production of the Pentateuch at the beginning of Ptolemaic rule in far away Egypt. It just doesn't work given (a) the gradual development of the early "Bible" (b) the differences between the LXX and the SP and MT and each other and (c) the appearance of a non-LXX text at remote Qumran near the beginning of Ptolemaic Egypt.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by neilgodfrey »

omg.... SG and SA, the biggest derailers of my threads attempting to discuss Gmirkin's work, are upset that others are here using the thread as an opportunity to try to get to the core of what Gmirkin's case is actually saying. Not fair! This thread is only for straw man assertions and claims by those who flatly refuse to actually read Gmirkin's work and who bluntly ignore/forget what Gmirkin himself has said in response to their comments in earlier threads. :roll:
StephenGoranson
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by StephenGoranson »

Earlier in this very same thread I quoted from my reading:

"2) RE Gmirkin in his 2022 Timaeus book, for example (there are other examples available), on page 23 wrote:

"....An important side consequence of this research is to demonstrate the basic robustness of the model argued in Gmirkin 2006, 2017 in which the Pentateuch was created by a multiplicity of authors present in
Alexandria ca. 270 BCE....."

In this case--and many others--the Alexandria Library component of the proposal is in RE Gmirkin's view central and essential."
*****
Yet NG still deflects.
Some might be embarrassed.
Especially, because of NG simultaneously distancing himself from the quite specific conspiracy proposal at hand.
Secret Alias
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by Secret Alias »

I get lying, cheating and stealing for money. Why would someone go through all of these efforts for ... a historical model? It is baffling. That Gmirkin or any other inventor of an idea should feel a personal attachment to a theory is perfectly understandable. What is "in it" for Neil? There just isn't enough time for the development of the early "proto-Samaritan Bible" (for that is what the Pentateuch + Joshua is) according to the Alexandrian conspiracy theory. I don't really care when the Bible was first established. I only know there isn't enough time for a Hellenistic origin. It by definition had to have already been started in the late Persian period.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by neilgodfrey »

StephenGoranson wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 4:45 am The title of this thread is not about possible cultural influences having moved in multiple directions at various times, which few dispute.
You appear not to have read what the discussion is about. The objection being made to Gmirkin's thesis is that Gmirkin has ignored alternative and more likely cultural influences that strengthen the case for the Pentateuch being composed over time before the Hellenistic era.

I thought you would have been supporting Austen's arguments and rebutting mine.
Secret Alias
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by Secret Alias »

It's not "about" Gmirkin. It's about the evidence. There isn't enough time for the Bible to have only been initiated with start of the Ptolemaic period. Any objective observer would conclude the Bible was already established before Ptolemy by the late Persian period at least. Why we have to push all the evidence into a very tight window. Why? Why is this necessary? Why does it better explain the evidence? Why is it more likely?
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by StephenGoranson »

NG, as I have said here before, explicitly, I DO support some of austendw's comments!
And some of Andrew's....
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by neilgodfrey »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 5:56 am It's about the evidence.
An archaeologist's slide of the evidence for the Persian period:
persian period.png
persian period.png (38.87 KiB) Viewed 318 times
The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T21U7tBCB8
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by neilgodfrey »

StephenGoranson wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 6:04 am NG, as I have said here before, explicitly, I DO support some of austendw's comments!
And some of Andrew's....
I'd appreciate it if you would respond with argument and relevant citation to the current discussion between Austen and me here -- instead of just complaining that we are not going the way of the straw man that was the original intent for this thread.
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Re: The Problem With The Theory That the Pentateuch Was Written in Alexandria

Post by StephenGoranson »

NG, if you are willing, try reading this again:

by StephenGoranson » Sat May 20, 2023 4:16 am

neilgodfrey asked for an example. austendw already gave such: the various law codes.

Using words such as hard-wired, embedded, and incredulity may not be a legitimate way to dismiss the example.

Especially when "ethnic" religions (relatively speaking: Judaism compared to Christianity; Hinduism compared to Buddhism) tend to preserve ancient words regarded as sacred.

For example, if I recall correctly, Parsi Zoroastrian priests chant some texts in old Avestan language, even when some of those words are not fully understood.
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