Young Jews Rebelling Against Synagogue Dues

[Stephan Huller]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/you ... story.html

[nili]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/you ... story.html

This is two year old news. Was there a particular point in sharing it?

[semiopen]

I haven't been young for many years but when I started to attend services about ten years ago the following happened.

During the Chazzan's repetition of the Amidah typically someone comes around with a Tzedekah box and you're supposed to put some money in there. At the time, I thought that this was an attempt by the Synagogue to extract money from me and didn't give any. Then I gained more understanding and realized that ten or so men putting in $1 each into the box isn't a whole lot of money, and that this is done because it is a propitious time to give charity.

When you get into real money it gets tougher.

The article mentions Chabad not charging fees but if you show up regularly you have to sponsor a Kiddush and donate now and then.

I think they get money from older people. One Rabbi was marketing to old age homes and lobbying the alte kackers (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kacker) to leave their money to Chabad.

You also get rich guys who apparently feel the need to donate to atone. Jeffrey_Epstein has been in the news for the last few days for setting up important guys with his sex slave, who was 17 at the time. I'm not sure how true it is, but it is interesting.

[Stephan Huller]

alta kackers is a funny bit of Yiddish = "old shit(s)." In German they some time soften kaka to gaga FWIW

[nili]

I haven't been young for many years but when I started to attend services about ten years ago the following happened.

During the Chazzan's repetition of the Amidah typically someone comes around with a Tzedekah box and you're supposed to put some money in there.

First, Orthodox Jews do not engage in financial transactions (or even carry money) on Shabbat.

Second, I have been to Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Orthodox, Sephardic, and Yemenite services and I've neither seen nor heard of such a thing. Furthermore, in my particular synagogue the tzedakah box is used exclusively for outside (and, often, secular) charities.

[semiopen]

I haven't been young for many years but when I started to attend services about ten years ago the following happened.

During the Chazzan's repetition of the Amidah typically someone comes around with a Tzedekah box and you're supposed to put some money in there.

First, Orthodox Jews do not engage in financial transactions (or even carry money) on Shabbat.

Second, I have been to Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Orthodox, Sephardic, and Yemenite services and I've neither seen nor heard of such a thing. Furthermore, in my particular synagogue the tzedakah box is used exclusively for outside (and, often, secular) charities.

Jews are commanded to pray three times per day, and Shabbat is only one day. From this we can deduce that the box was passed around on a day that was not Shabbat. Typically there is a minyan held on Sunday morning so that mourners can say Kaddish. Actually I was at a conservative synagogue where this happened on a Sunday so it is not just an Orthodox tradition. I have also been to the Wall Street Synagogue in NYC and they did not pass the box around but kept it in the back. This might be common for weekday prayers because the idea is to pray fast and having a guy walking around might slow things up.

My guess is that Chabad always passes around a box. Thinking back on the conservative service, they did not pass the box around, but the Rabbi told me where it was before I left - this must have been what irritated me.

Showing an Haredi Jew money on Shabbat is an excellent way to piss him off. I think this is more popular in Israel than the US.

I think the point of Stephen's article was that other religions do not actually charge membership dues. I was also surprised to learn that people actually pay for Aliyot to the Torah, but that is even common in Orthodox Synagogues depending on how many people typically attend I suppose.

I'm not clear on what actually happens to the money in the box. I'm not sure if the Rabbi is overly anal on getting that exact money to a kosher charity but whatever.

[nili]

I haven't been young for many years but when I started to attend services about ten years ago the following happened.

During the Chazzan's repetition of the Amidah typically someone comes around with a Tzedekah box and you're supposed to put some money in there.

First, Orthodox Jews do not engage in financial transactions (or even carry money) on Shabbat.

Second, I have been to Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Orthodox, Sephardic, and Yemenite services and I've neither seen nor heard of such a thing. Furthermore, in my particular synagogue the tzedakah box is used exclusively for outside (and, often, secular) charities.

Jews are commanded to pray three times per day, and Shabbat is only one day. From this we can deduce that the box was passed around on a day that was not Shabbat. Typically there is a minyan held on Sunday morning so that mourners can say Kaddish. Actually I was at a conservative synagogue where this happened on a Sunday so it is not just an Orthodox tradition. I have also been to the Wall Street Synagogue in NYC and they did not pass the box around but kept it in the back. This might be common for weekday prayers because the idea is to pray fast and having a guy walking around might slow things up.

My guess is that Chabad always passes around a box. Thinking back on the conservative service, they did not pass the box around, but the Rabbi told me where it was before I left - this must have been what irritated me.

Showing an Haredi Jew money on Shabbat is an excellent way to piss him off. I think this is more popular in Israel than the US.

I think the point of Stephen's article was that other religions do not actually charge membership dues. I was also surprised to learn that people actually pay for Aliyot to the Torah, but that is even common in Orthodox Synagogues depending on how many people typically attend I suppose.

I'm not clear on what actually happens to the money in the box. I'm not sure if the Rabbi is overly anal on getting that exact money to a kosher charity but whatever.

Again, I am a 69 year old active Jew I have never seen such a thing either here or in Israel.

[semiopen]

Again, I am a 69 year old active Jew I have never seen such a thing either here or in Israel.

Your credibility took a bit of a hit when you assumed I was talking about a Shabbat service.

We all have gaps in our knowledge, for example, I suspect that you have never heard that Joseph looked so much like Rachel that Jacob dressed him like her (the famous garment) and kept him at home to be his cabana boy while his brothers went out to work.

http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questi ... ing-prayer

Regarding the matter at hand, I had trouble finding confirmation of this custom on google without using pushka as an argument.

In my shul someone usually brings around the pushka (charity box) during the chazzan's repetition of shmoneh esrei. I have also heard that it is appropriate to give tzedaka during v'yivarech Dovid. However there are people who come into shul to collect at all times of davening (known as meshulachim). Is it permissible for them to collect charity at any time during davening?

The answer is less clear, however here is confirmation that the custom exists.

Here is an interesting question about the guy who passes it around.

http://kolromm.blogspot.com/2003_02_16_archive.html

Every minyan has its “pushka guy.” To the best of my knowledge, no one ever asks the pushka guy to assume his role. From my lifetime experience in many minyanim, I suspect some commonality of personality that unites those who like to walk around the shul, charity box in hand, during the weekday morning repetition of the Amidah. The pushka guy slowly passes by each of the worshippers enabling (some say, not so subtly coercing) each one to fulfill the mitzvah of daily giving to zedakah.

Actually, the minyan I attend has a special needs guy walk around with it. In his absence I've seen the Rabbi honor his 2 year old grandson with the duty... sometimes he asks someone else.

From a technical point of view, at Chabad, the guy walks around after the atah kadosh verse following the Kedushah. At that point people can sit down.

Despite you never seeing the practice it seems to be quite widespread.

[nili]

Again, I am a 69 year old active Jew I have never seen such a thing either here or in Israel.

Your credibility took a bit of a hit when you assumed I was talking about a Shabbat service.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[semiopen]

It's remarkable that it's so hard to find information on what has to be a very widespread custom.

https://www.kisyn.org/sites/default/files/april2013.pdf

11. The pushka (tzedakah box) used to be circulated at weekday shacharit services after the Amidah but the halachic texts recommend this happens just before the end of the pesukei d’zimrah. We have begun this practice. At minchah, the best time to give is right before the Amidah. We arouse our compassion right before prayer in order to arouse the compassion of G-d.

Which shows what dickheads rabbis can be. I guess he could tell us what the exact "halachic text" he is talking about but then he'd have to shoot us. His reference to the diety seems a little familar - Dr. G-d is more appropriate. I'm not sure about Mincha, I was guessing this is mostly done at Shacharit.

Pesukei_dezimra is the first part of Shacharit and at Chabad the rules are a little looser than the rest of the service... for example talking is not permitted after that (I'm not sure until when but think until after the Amidah and Tachanun (which follows directly) if it is said that day.

Personally, if I am circulating the Pushka, I will make joking derogatory/anti-semitic comments if people fumble with their money or don't put any in. A link I posted yesterday mentioned how annoying shaking the pushka box (to rattle the coins) is. I must go to a rich shul because everyone gives folding money except for one guy. Folding money is good because it's hard to tell if you are giving a $1 or $20.