Ashkenazi Jewish Women Descended Mostly From ItalianConverts

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
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semiopen2
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Re: Ashkenazi Jewish Women Descended Mostly From ItalianConv

Post by semiopen2 »

Recently, I commented on this study at FRDB because there is the usual discussion on Who or What is a Jew in conjunction with Shlomo Sands - The Invention of the Jewish People http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish- ... ish+people and oddly, I might be the only one there that read it.

I think this is an important book but I thought Dr. Sands over did it with the Khazar connection. The rap on this was that DNA "science" suggested a middle east origin for Jews. I've since regarded the Khazar stuff as a significant blemish on the book. I recommended that the comments section on the book could be studied (as one reviewer suggested) rather than buying the book.

With the publication of this study in October, I'm wondering how much of Jewish genetics (or whatever DNA shit is called) has been bullshit previously (or bullshit now). I recall an earlier article on Y-chromosomal_Aaron where the author remarked on the steadfastness of Jewish females (who married Cohens). I think the idea was that if they would have been impregnated by a non-Cohen while married, the DNA lineage would have been fucked up (no pun intended).

Anyway this study is important and so far I'm not aware of any refutations.
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stephan happy huller
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Re: Ashkenazi Jewish Women Descended Mostly From ItalianConv

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I think the findings - if they hold up - actually explain a great deal about early Christianity as well. In the earliest reports about the Roman community in the Liber Pontificalis there is a sense that the Christian community turned its back on 'Judaism' of some sort. I think that there were a large body of proselytes - perhaps females - who had to decide whether to become Jews or Christians. Think Valeria the wife of R Meir as well as the female converts to the various heresies especially the Marcosian sect (also Marcellina the Carpocratian or Marcionite).
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stephan happy huller
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Re: Ashkenazi Jewish Women Descended Mostly From ItalianConv

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XI. PIVS

1 Pius, natione Italus, ex patre Rufino, frater Pastoris, de ciuitate Aquilegia, sedit ann. XVIIII m. IIII d. III. Fuit autem temporibus Antonini Pii, a consolatu Clari et Seueri (146). 2 Sub huius episcopatum Hermis librum scripsit in quo mandatum continet quod ei praecepit angelus Domini, cum uenit ad eum in habitu pastoris ; et praecepit ei ut Paschae die dominico celebraretur. 3 Hic constituit hereticum uenientem ex Iudaeorum herese suscipi et baptizari ; et constitutum de ecclesia fecit. † 5 Hic fecit ordinationes V per mens. Decemb., presbiteros XVIIII, diaconos XXI ; episcopos per diuersa loca numero XII. Qui etiam sepultus est iuxta corpus beati Petri, in Vaticanum, V id. Iul. Et cessauit episcopatus dies XIIII.

† 4 Hic ex rogatu beate Praxedis dedicauit aecclesiam thermas Nouati, in uico Patricii, in honore sororis sue sanctae Potentianae, ubi et multa dona obtulit ; ubi sepius sacrificium Domino offerens ministrabat. Inmo et fontem baptismi construi fecit, manus suas benedixit et consecrauit ; et multos uenientes ad fidem baptizauit in nomine Trinitatis.



XII. ANICETVS

1 Anicitus, natione Syrus, ex patre Iohanne, de uico Humisa, sedit ann. XI m. IIII d. III. Fuit autem temporibus Seueri et Marci, a consulatu Gallicani et Veteris (150) usque ad Praesente et Rufino (153). 2 Hic constituit ut clerus comam non nutriret, secundum praeceptum apostoli. Hic fecit ordinationes V per mens. Decemb., presbiteros XVIIII, diaconos IIII ; episcopos per diuersa loca numero VIIII. Qui etiam obiit martyr et sepultus est in cymiterio Calisti XII kal. Mai. Et cessauit episcopatus dies XVII.



XIII. SOTER

1 Soter, natione Campanus, ex patre Concordio, de ciuitate Fundis, sedit ann. VIIII m. VI d. XXI. Fuit autem temporibus Seueri, a consulatu Rustici et Aquilini (162) usque ad Cetego et Claro (170). 2 Hic constituit ut nullus monachus pallam sacratam contingeret, nec incensum poneret in sanctam ecclesiam. 3 Hic fecit ordinationes III per mens. Decemb., presbiteros XVIII, diaconos VIIII ; episcopos per diuersa loca numero XI. Qui etiam sepultus est in cymiterio Calisti, uia Appia, X kal. Mai. Et cessauit episcopatus dies XXI.



XIV. ELEVTHERIVS

1 Eleuther, natione Grecus, ex patre Habundio, de oppido Nicopoli, sedit ann. XV m. III d. II. Fuit autem temporibus Antonini et Commodi, usque Paterno et Bradua (185). 2 Hic accepit epistula a Lucio, Brittanio rege, ut christianus efficeretur per eius mandatum. Et hoc iterum firmauit, ut nulla esca a Christianis repudiaretur, maxime fidelibus, quod Deus creauit, quae tamen rationalis et humana est. 3 Hic fecit ordinationes III per mens. Decemb., presbiteros XII, diaconos VIII ; episcopos per diuersa loca numero XV. Qui etiam sepultus est iuxta corpus beati Petri, in Vaticano, VIIII kal. Iun. Et cessauit episcopatus dies XV.



XV. VICTOR

1 Victor, natione Afer, ex patre Felice, sedit ann. X m. II d. X. Fuit autem temporibus Cesaris, a consulatu Commodi II et Grauione (186) usque ad Laterano et Rufino (197). 2 Hic constituit ut sanctum Pascha die dominico celebraretur, sicut Eleuther. Hic fecit sequentes cleros. Martyrio coronatur. Et constituit ut, necessitate faciente, ut ubiubi inuentus fuisset, siue in flumine, siue in mari, siue in fontibus, tantum christiano confessione credulitatis clarificata, quicumque hominum ex gentile ueniens ut baptizaretur. 4 Hic fecit ordinationes II per mens. Decemb., presbiteros IIII, diaconos VII ; episcopos per diuersa loca XII. 3 Hic fecit constitutum ad interrogationem sacerdotum de circulo Paschae [ut dominico Paschae], cum presbiteris et episcopis factam conlationem et arcessito Theophilo, episcopo Alexandriae, facta congregatione, ut a XIIII luna primi mensis usque ad XXI, diem dominicum, custodiatur sanctum Pascha. Hic sepultus est iuxta corpus beati Petri apostoli, in Vaticano, V kal. Aug. Et cessauit episcopatus dies XII.



XVI. ZEPHYRINVS

1 Zepherinus, natione Romanus, ex patre Habundio, sedit ann. VIII m. VII d. X. Fuit autem temporibus Antonini et Seueri, a consulatu Saturnini et Gallicani (198) usque Praesente et Stricato consulibus (217). 2 Hic constituit praesentia omnibus clericis et laicis fidelibus, siue clericus, siue leuita, siue sacerdos ordinaretur. Et fecit constitutum de ecclesia, et patenas uitreas ante sacerdotes in ecclesia, et ministros supportantes, donec episcopus missas celebraret, ante se sacerdotes adstantes, sic missae celebrarentur ; excepto quod ius episcopi interest tantum, clerus sustineret omnibus praesentes ; ex ea consecratione de manu episcopi iam coronam consecratam acciperet presbiter tradendam populo. 3 Hic fecit ordinationes IIII per mens. Decemb., presbiteros XIIII, diaconos VII ; episcopos per diuersa loca numero XIII. Qui etiam sepultus est in cymiterio suo, iuxta cymiterium Calisti, uia Appia, VIII kal. Septemb. Et cessauit episcopatus dies VI.
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