Garden of Eden

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
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ConfusedEnoch
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:39 am

Re: Garden of Eden

Post by ConfusedEnoch »

Japhethite wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:24 am I don't agree the Hebrew names came from Greek names/words.

1st river compasses the land of Gold.
2nd river compasses the land of Cush "Ethiopia", and Ethiopians are from the silver age in a Classical/Egyptian source.
So 4 rivers are a type of 4 world ages (gold, silver, brazen, iron) as well as 4 quarters of world (forming a Cross).
Josephus' meanings of the 4 rivers names also confirm types of 4 world ages.
There are also confirmation matches of the 4 rivers & 4 ages in a number of other nations myths around the world.
There was no such system with 4 world ages at the time.
Which ones are you referring to? Hindu Yugas?

You speak as if "The Land of Gold" is a known place, which it isn't, and "Ethiopia" refers to more than 5 distinct areas in contemporaneous writings. From Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa to Sudan/Northeast Africa, there is no such thing as a defined "Ethiopia".

The oldest mention of it is in Homer, but the oldest *known* second-hand reference is to Hecateus of Miletus, who said it was situated to the East of the Nile, all the way to the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean.
Japhethite
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:39 am

Re: Garden of Eden

Post by Japhethite »

Sorry but the 4 world ages is found in many nations around the world. I will have to dig out my lists to prove it if/when I have time. Yes Hindu Yugas. Greek Ages (Hesiod, Ovid etc). Daniel. Mexican 4 Suns. Navaho. See also 4 castes, 4 colours/metals, 4 quarters in MacKenzies Pre-Columban America book.

Cush "burnt/dark/black" (son of Ham "hot"). Ethiopians "burnt faces".
Japhethite
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:39 am

Re: Garden of Eden

Post by Japhethite »

Here is the 4 rivers & 4 ages & 4 quarters & 4 castes in many cultures. Decide for yourself if they are connected and are pre-Homer.

Apache: black/east, white/south, yellow/west, blue/north.
Cherokee: red/east, white/south, black/west, blue/north.
Navaho: white/east, blue/south, yellow/west, black/north.
Navaho: In the age of beginning 4 streams flowed from the earth's center to the 4 cardinal points.
Sioux: 4 ages/legs.
"Hopi Predict a 25 year period of purification followed by End of 4th World and beginning of the 5th."

Mexican/Aztec: 4 suns/worldages (Stone of 4 suns).
American: north/black, west/red, east/white, south/yellow.
Yucatan: 4 Bacabs: Kan/east/yellow, Muluc/north/white, Ix/west/black, Cauac/south/red.
Maya: white/north/whitebeing, yellow/south/belly, red/east/serpentbeing, black/west/disembowlled.
American/Mexican: red/north, blue/green/west, yellow/east, white/south.
Olmec: gold, silver, jade, turquoise (ref P Kolosimo)?
Aztec: representation of Aztlan (4 compass points)?
Tlalocan source of rivers that nourished earth?
Cross of Quetzalcoatl?
Aztec: Tonacatecuhtli drove 4 roads thru centre of earth after cataclysm to disperse flood waters of the deluge (ref M Jordan)?
Mexico: 4 ages: white/water/Babel/4800, gold/yellow/winds/4010, red/fire/4801, black/5042/famine/tulan/rainedblood/terror.

4 chiefs/parts earth (Bochica).

Peru: Cuzco 4 parts/divions/quarters.
Peru: Empire 4 parts/quarters (one part called Antisuyo).

Fon/African: red/side, white/side, green/front, black/behind.
Benin/Fon/Voodoo: 4 day creation week (Cotterel).

Celtic: 4 ages: silver, gold, bronze, iron.
Celtic: 4 ages: white, red, yellow, black.
Celtic: gold, silver, brass/copper, crystal (Corra/Maeldune)?
Celtic cross?
Celtic: 4 land TDD: Murias, Finias, Falias, Gorias?
Celt: black/north, white/south, dun/west, purple/east.
Irish: 4 provinces (Mide/Meath 5th)?
4 leaf clover?
Milesius looking over the 4 quarters?

Eddaic/Norse: 4 streams from Audhumla/Ymir (ref Cooper)?

Western/European/Classical/Christian:
4 rivers Hyperborea in Mercator map?
Atlantis cross?
"The 4 Rivers of Paradise on the pillars at Chartres Cathedral".
Krantor: 4 continents (Eur, Asia, Afr, Amer)?
"Nile, Euphrates, Tigris, Ganges" (Josephus/Philipot)?
"The Cross made of palm, cedar, olive, cypress representing the quarters" (ref Cooper/Brewers, compare Ethelwerd)?
"INRI = yew, ash, elder, yew"?

Italy/Roman: 4 quadrata/quarters Rome & Jerusalem.

Greek: 4 rivers Thera?
4/5 world ages Ovid/Hesiod: yellow/gold/Kronos/Lykian, white/silver/Zeus/Ethiopia, red/bronze/copper/Carian/rainflood, (heroic/heroes,) black/iron.

Egyptian: 4 Canopic gods/sons of Horus: red/north/viscera, white/south/stomach/intestine, west/dark/black/liver/gall, east/gold/green/heart/lungs?
Egypt: north/Moeris, west/Rhampsinitus, east/Asychis, south/Psammeticus (Herodotus).
4 races in Egyptian: Rot/red/Egyptian, Namu/yellow/Mideastern, Tamahu/white/Libyan, Nahsu/black/Nubian?

Biblical: "the river of Eden and its 4 branches" (Havilah/Pishon/multitude, Cush/Gihon/whatarisesfromtheeast, Asshur/Hiddekel/Tigris/swift/narrow, Perath/Euphrates/dispersion/flower).
Pseudepigrapha says 3 sons Noah divided 4 region post-flood earth leaving 1 quarter unallocated/unihabited?
Bible: 4 kings: Elam/east, Shinar/south, Ellasar/Arioch/north, Goiim/Tidal/west (Gen 14).
Cross of Jesus points to all 4 quarters of world.
Jesus garment parted in 4 parts.
4 beasts Daniel (lion, bear, leopard, beast/dragon/composite).
4 metals Daniel (gold, silver, brass/brazen/bronze, iron/clay).
4 horsemen of the Apocalypse/Revelation 6?
4 generations of 100 years Abraham (Genesis).

4 rivers Islam: Euphrates, Nile, Nahrawan, Balkh.

Semitic: east/qedem/front, south/right/jamin, north/nertrak/left, west/hind/akharru?

Sumerian: Shubur/east, Sumer/south, Uri/north, Martu/Amurru/west?
Sumerian/Akkadian: Akkad/Uri, Elam, Subartu/S&G, Amurru/Phoenicia/west?
Mesopotamia: "to water the 4 regions of the earth" (ref Heidel).
4 rivers Karduniash (Tigris, Euphrates, Surappi, Ukni).

Iranian: 4 cups from 4 rivers (Oxus, Indus, Euphrates, Danube).
Iran: 4 tree/metals: gold, silver, steel, iron-compound.

Indian: 4 rivers Vedic (Vanguhidaitya, Rangha, Haptahendu, Haetumant).
Indian: 4 rivers Vedic (Oxus, Indus, Helmand, Aras/Euphrates).
Indian: picture of Krishna & Radha has 4 sides river, snake, 2 trees, man & woman, etc like Biblical Eden?
Swastika?
Indian: 4 Yugas/Ages Narayana: krita/satya/white/perfect/1/4800, dvapara/red/3600, treta/yellow/quarter/2400, kali/black/dark/iron/half/1200.
Indian: 4 castes: kshatriya/red, brahmin/white, visya/vipra, shudra/black.
Ceylon: yellow/north, blue/south, red/west, white/east.

Tibet: green/north, yellow/south, red/west, white/east.

Chinese/Buddhist: 4 kings heaven or 4 rivers of Mt Sumeru: gold/Li, silver/Ma, agate/Chao, crystal/Wen.
China: north/black/tortoise/kidney/bladder/winter/cold/water/Mercury, south/red/bird/heart/intestine/yellow/spleen/summer/fir/sun/Mars, west/white/tiger/lung/smallintestine/autumn/wind/metal/Venus, east/azure/blue/dragon/green/liver/gall/spring/wood/Jupiter/rain.
Chinese version: "Kun-lun source of 4 great rivers which flowed in 4 directions", (ref Larousse).
China: "within the 4 seas"?
4 kings heaven: pure/1st, vast, sea, age/last.

Java: black/north, red/south, yellow/west, white/east, mixed/centre.
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