yegads: Holy Moses, Thoth!

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
yakovzutolmai
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Re: Moses =Thoth

Post by yakovzutolmai »

billd89 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:14 am
Hermes Trismegistus comes from Harran.
Can you cite this somewhere? Hermes is from Thoth; I've never seen Egyptian Thoth indicated as a foreign god.
Not a source, but context: http://www.hermetics.org/Sabians_of_Harran.html

There are a few papers on the "Sabians" of Harran. I'm not sure if we could say that Harran introduced the Greek world to "Thoth/Idris". Perhaps it came out of Alexandria. However, it was certainly a late Hermetic center, and there is a strong continuity at Harran with ancient cults.

We maybe should be asking this question and finding a better answer. If Iah/Idris were in Syria in the second millenium BC, that would be very interesting. There are Ammonites in Canaan. Sin/Sinai. Etc. Harran was definitely a very ancient site for the Bablyonian Sin.

Also, there does seem to be a difference between Zeus Hammon and Zeus Kaisos. In the Ammonite system, Thoth is a Saturnian/Lunar figure (like Sin). The Hadad system has Ptah/Kothar-wa-Khasis as a craftsman, and El is the Saturnian figure. These just seem like two different systems.
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billd89
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Re: Moses =Thoth

Post by billd89 »

I've dissected bits for consistency in my reply.
yakovzutolmai wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:47 amNot a source, but context: http://www.hermetics.org/Sabians_of_Harran.html
There are a few papers on the "Sabians" of Harran. ... However, it was certainly a late Hermetic center, and there is a strong continuity at Harran with ancient cults.
Harran adopted the Graeco-Egyptian Hermes, not vice-versa. Much earlier, I wonder if the Pyramid builders came from Mesopotamia, then Thoth might have an origin there? Thoth is NOT one of the 'old gods' however.
I'm not sure if we could say that Harran introduced the Greek world to "Thoth/Idris". Perhaps it came out of Alexandria.
Egyptian Thoth dates back to 2600 BC at least; Alexandria appears c.300 BC. Hermes Trismegistos (Graeco-Egyptian god) probably dates c.250 BC. "Thrice-Great Thoth" is first attested to c.300 BC as Lord of Hermopolis, that predates H.T. Idris is not recognized in either Garth Fowden's The Egyptian Hermes [1986] or Christian Bull's The Tradition of Hermes Trismegistus [2018] (the major and 'recent' scholarly summaries); so, not germane to any major scholars? Ergo, Thoth/Idris shouldn't be conflated.
If Iah/Idris were in Syria in the second millenium BC, that would be very interesting. There are Ammonites in Canaan. Sin/Sinai. Etc. Harran was definitely a very ancient site for the Bablyonian Sin. Also, there does seem to be a difference between Zeus Hammon and Zeus Kaisos. In the Ammonite system, Thoth is a Saturnian/Lunar figure (like Sin). The Hadad system has Ptah/Kothar-wa-Khasis as a craftsman, and El is the Saturnian figure. These just seem like two different systems.
I'm not sure about any of that. I use timelines w/ estimated dates so I don't conflate disparate localities and distant centuries: proximity is key to any of my assumptions.
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