Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
Ethan
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Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by Ethan »

Isaiah 1:1
The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

Hosea 1:1
The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel

Micah 1:1
1 The word of the LORD that came to Micah the Morasthite in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 26:18
Micah the Morasthite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah

The opening statement in Isaiah seems to imply the prophet was active from Uzziah to Hezekiah, four generations, this is chronologically unrealistic

Isaiah, Hosea and Micah all prophesied in the days of Hezekiah, this means they were three prophets at one time and none of them mention each other.

Of all three prophets, only Micah is mentioned in Jeremiah, this is evidence that Micah to be genuine and Hosea and Isaiah to be false and written after Jeremiah

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Last edited by Ethan on Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ethan
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by Ethan »

Micah 1:2 Hear, all ye people; hearken, O earth
Isaiah 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth

Isaiah - שמעו שמים "hear heaven
Micah. שמעו עמים "hear people".

It would seem Isaiah was modelled after Micah

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Last edited by Ethan on Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yakovzutolmai
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by yakovzutolmai »

Ethan wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:25 am Micah 1:2 Hear, all ye people; hearken, O earth
Isaiah 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth

Isaiah - שמעו שמים "hear heaven
Micah. שמעו עמים "hear people".

It would seem Isaiah was modelled after Micah
Perhaps the prophets are merely an attempt by Jerusalem sages to construct a counter-cult in the Assyrian model. I think I've read that late Neo-Assyria had begun to treat Asshur as a monotheistic overgod. Maybe Jewish monotheism begins as a reaction, after Jerusalem's resistance against Sargon II. Maybe its roots are pre-Babylonian captivity.
Ethan
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by Ethan »

yakovzutolmai wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:26 pm
Ethan wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:25 am Micah 1:2 Hear, all ye people; hearken, O earth
Isaiah 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth

Isaiah - שמעו שמים "hear heaven
Micah. שמעו עמים "hear people".

It would seem Isaiah was modelled after Micah
Perhaps the prophets are merely an attempt by Jerusalem sages to construct a counter-cult in the Assyrian model. I think I've read that late Neo-Assyria had begun to treat Asshur as a monotheistic overgod. Maybe Jewish monotheism begins as a reaction, after Jerusalem's resistance against Sargon II. Maybe its roots are pre-Babylonian captivity.
Assyrian Kings are mentioned in Isaiah.

Isaiah 20:1 Sargon
Isaiah 36:1 Sennacherib

So why does the focal point keep switching between Assyria and Babylon.

Isaiah 21:9 Babylon is fallen

In the Septuagint the verb fallen here is present tense, πέπτωκεν Βαβυλών "Babylon is falling"

Isaiah 45:1 Cyrus

Isaiah then jumps forward to Cyrus who will rebuild the Temple and restore Jerusalem, however according to Ezra the temple was built and dedicated on the 3rd of the twelfth month in the sixth year of Darius.

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Last edited by Ethan on Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ethan
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by Ethan »

Ctesias was a Greek physician and historian to the Achaemenid king Artaxerxes II

His six books covered the history of Assyria and Babylon to the foundation of the Persian empire.

This parallels the Old Testament and Isaiah, which covers Assyria and Babylon to the foundation of Persia. I believe the history in the Old Testament was sourced from Ctesias.

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Last edited by Ethan on Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ethan
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by Ethan »

They are different spellings of ישעיהו (Isaiah) in the LXX. In 2 Chronicles 26:22 it is Ιεσσιος but elsewhere Ησαιας which is carried over into the New Testament and Josephus.

1 Chronicles 25:15 ישעיהו Ιωσια
Ezra 8:19 ישעיה Ωσαια
Nehemiah 11:7 ישעיה Ιεσια

Hebrew compound names are reversible, Ammiel עמיאל
in 1 Chronicles 3:5 is Eliam עליאם in 2 Samuel 11:3.

Thus the name Isaiah ישעיהו is interchangeable with יהשוע written השוע in Numbers 13:8, also the name of Hosea. But notice the י is dropped in השוע/Ωσαια as it does in Ησαιας.

The initial letters in Ωσαια and Ησαιας are diphthong

Η = ει
Ω = αυ, ου

ישע-יה > ισο ιε > ιεισο > ιησο = Ιησούς

Ιεσσιος = Ιεσ-σιος = ἀίτας Διος/ηιθεος Διος
Ησαιας / Εισαιας / Ιεσαιας ?

ἐσσῆνας / Essenes

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Last edited by Ethan on Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ethan
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by Ethan »

The opening of Hosea mentions the birth of his children and Isaiah also mentions birth of mysterious children

Hosea
Jezreel
Loruhamah (daughter)
Laoammi

Isaiah
Immanuel
Mahershalalhashbaz

The third son in Hosea is לא-עמ-י and LXX translates Οὐ-λαόσ-μου "not my people" cf. עמני אל

Was Emmanuel the son of Isaiah?

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Last edited by Ethan on Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Charles Wilson
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by Charles Wilson »

yakovzutolmai wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:26 pm Perhaps the prophets are merely an attempt by Jerusalem sages to construct a counter-cult in the Assyrian model... Maybe its roots are pre-Babylonian captivity.
Michael Wood has noted that Pre-Captivity, there were plenty of clay figurines (representing gods and goddesses?), male and female, but after the Captivity, there are only males. Thus, the females who are praying for fertility have Asherah and others but after the return, they only have the one male. Hence the "Garden of Eden" Motif is after the return and probably after the Hasmoneans.

There are some archaic phrases that occur in the OT but for the most part, I believe that you would have to sort through the material from the later creations.

Nice area for study.

CW
yakovzutolmai
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by yakovzutolmai »

Charles Wilson wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:52 pm
yakovzutolmai wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:26 pm Perhaps the prophets are merely an attempt by Jerusalem sages to construct a counter-cult in the Assyrian model... Maybe its roots are pre-Babylonian captivity.
Michael Wood has noted that Pre-Captivity, there were plenty of clay figurines (representing gods and goddesses?), male and female, but after the Captivity, there are only males. Thus, the females who are praying for fertility have Asherah and others but after the return, they only have the one male. Hence the "Garden of Eden" Motif is after the return and probably after the Hasmoneans.

There are some archaic phrases that occur in the OT but for the most part, I believe that you would have to sort through the material from the later creations.

Nice area for study.

CW
I meant that in the period between captivities, Jerusalem begins to adopt Assyria's (hypothesized) system of Ashur as Ein Sof, the hidden power behind the powers. The formal monotheism would come much later, probably as you claim, after contact with Hellenistic culture.

This could explain Metatron. Metatron was the earlier Ein Sof conceit, and it persisted after formal, exoteric monotheism leading to a confusion and debate. Why would Monotheos need a power behind the throne? Certainly, the Elohim might need one in order to become esoterically more monotheistic. This could even explain Elohim v Yahweh. Elohim is the shorthand, maybe exoteric title for one who is behind all.
Charles Wilson
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Re: Was Isaiah a false prophet?

Post by Charles Wilson »

Nice work!
Thank you.
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