The Samaritans

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
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John T
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by John T »

Not that archaeology matters to the mythicists but here is a short article on the subject.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dai ... eo-Hebrew_
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John T
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by John T »

Here is a list of 50 real people of the Bible that archaeology confirmed. Of course to the mythicists they are either interpolations or the Bible lied about their role regarding Canaan and Samaria.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dai ... etta_Stone

John2, is that enough or do you think the "Jesus in outer space" mythicists still might have something to offer here? :banghead:
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by neilgodfrey »

John T wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:58 pm Not that archaeology matters to the mythicists but here is a short article on the subject.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dai ... eo-Hebrew_
One of the articles linked to that site says this of Jesus:
Jewish preacher, healer, and teacher; called Christ; crucified by order of Pilate; then said to have risen
I'm always slightly amused whenever I read such a claim --- and it's found often enough beyond that particular article. The standard line is that after X, Y and Z about Jesus, the final event is that "he was said" or "he was believed" to have risen from the dead/appeared alive to disciples after his burial, etc.

One never reads, "It was said that he was a preacher, it was said that he was a healer, it was said that he was a teacher, and then it was said that he rose from the dead" -- yet those first items are just as much articles of what "someone said", "hearsay", from a source of unknown authorship, of unknown provenance, of unknown date, . . . .

This is nothing more than an idle passing observation. Not interested in debating the question. I am quite open to the hypothesis that Christianity began with a "historical Jesus" of any kind, but I do insist on following standard historical methods that are recognized among scholarly/academic historians.
ABuddhist
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by ABuddhist »

John T wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:42 pm Here is a list of 50 real people of the Bible that archaeology confirmed. Of course to the mythicists they are either interpolations or the Bible lied about their role regarding Canaan and Samaria.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dai ... etta_Stone
With all due respect, I do not think that any mythicists claim that no historical persons are in the Bible - although they often disagree with the Bible's narrative about them. But this is not a sentiment limited to mythicists.
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John T
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by John T »

Again, are we dealing with cognitive dissonance or mythicist deception when it comes to the denial of proven archeological evidence?

Certainty they are not using standard historical methods.

Their opinions are subjective not objective.

Just saying.

I have gone far beyond what was required to back up my claims by citing real scholars/sources. So, now I leave the smart-alleck comments for John2 to field.

John T is done with this thread. :cheers:
ABuddhist
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by ABuddhist »

John T wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:36 pm Again, are we dealing with cognitive dissonance or mythicist deception when it comes to the denial of proven archeological evidence?
You have yet to cite a mythicist ignoring archaeological evidence.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by neilgodfrey »

John T wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:36 pm Again, are we dealing with cognitive dissonance or mythicist deception when it comes to the denial of proven archeological evidence?

Certainty they are not using standard historical methods.

Their opinions are subjective not objective.

Just saying.

I have gone far beyond what was required to back up my claims by citing real scholars/sources. So, now I leave the smart-alleck comments for John2 to field.

John T is done with this thread. :cheers:
oi there matey --- I believe the archaeological evidence 100%. Why, even the historical Persian king, proven to have existed and ruled by archaeology, is a main character in the novel Chaereas and Callirhoe by Chariton. Which absolutely proves to any reasonable minded person (such as one who believes Josephus was never a teller of an untruth and that a cow really did give birth to a lamb!) that the tale of Chaeras and Callirhoe is as historical as Churchill's History of the English Speaking People and that Chariton was as much a historian as Toynbee and the authors of the gospels! ;-)

I can see why you want to run and hide as soon as you've made such a silly comment.
StephenGoranson
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by StephenGoranson »

I have not seen the exhibit, nor visited the Museum of the Bible, but perhaps some in or near Washington DC might be interested in an exhibit on Samaritans:

https://www.museumofthebible.org/exhibi ... cal-people

"The name Samaritan is often linked to two particular stories found in the New Testament: Jesus's parable of the good Samaritan and the story of his encounter with the Samaritan woman at the well. But beyond that, few know much about this micro-community of 850 people living in modern Israel who trace their history back to the kingdom of ancient Israel.

This September, the museum will open a new exhibition that will offer unprecedented access to the life, culture, and history of the Samaritans. Created in partnership with the Yeshiva University Center for Israel Studies, directed by Dr. Steven Fine, the exhibition is the first of its kind. Guests will enjoy unique videos, some of which are filmed in familiar and home settings and focus on the different life experiences of the Samaritans from Passover sacrifices to weddings. They will enjoy tales from the elders and a special sukkah that will help illustrate religious life. The exhibit will also assemble, for the first time, the most important artifacts preserved in museums and libraries the world over to illuminate this amazing history. These include paintings, manuscripts, priceless books, photography, ritual objects, and significant archaeological discoveries from Greece, Italy, and Israel.

Don’t miss this chance to better understand the Samaritans, a community with deep connections to the Bible who have survived for over 2,000 years.

Dates: September 16, 2022 – January 1, 2023"
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billd89
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by billd89 »

My pet peeve is everyone's assumption of one single & unitary Samaritan culture situated in one location. Rather than like Jews or Armenians, a Diaspora people, who failed to maintain cohesion & survive thousands of years. We are not accounting for survivorship bias

I suppose they (c.25 AD) were quasi 'Jewish' but distinct in different ways according to time and place, assimilating with whatever local culture had allowed them in.

How does Philo Judaeus distinguish the Samaritans in Egypt?
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Secret Alias
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Re: The Samaritans

Post by Secret Alias »

It is generally assumed that there were at least TWO Samaritan cultures. The one let's call it 'normative Samaritanism' likely had connection with the Sadducees and Karaites. The other 'Dositheanism' seemed to have been especially influential at Alexandria (owing to the statement of Christians there into the fifth or sixth centuries. Indeed the second part of the Samaritan Chronicle mentions Dosithean villages surviving into Muslim times and my friend and teacher I R M Boid of Monash assumes that some sort of ecumenical movement brought together the two cultures evidenced by (i) the survival of Dosithean halakhah in modern Samaritanism and (ii) prayers of 'Dustan' being incorporated into the common book of prayers for the Samaritans. Boid assumes that the Dositheans prayed facing Gerizim and that 'normative Samaritans' carried out sacrifices AT Gerizim. Dositheans seemed to have been especial opposed to the establishment of permanent structures (the Pentateuch ascribes only tents or flimsy structures to the ancient Israelites). I hope that helps.

'Quasi-Jewish' is a silly terminology as the Pentateuch was Samaritan (= Gerizim/Shechem) and no explicit mention of Jerusalem appears.
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