Note: Denarius Converter program

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andrewcriddle
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Re: Jesus and the Denarius story

Post by andrewcriddle »

spin wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:35 am
DCHindley wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:28 am Oops! I blame old age ...
Not old age, Dave. Just think of Bertie Russell or Noam Chomsky. It's pure senility...

...like when Windows crashes on me then I restart & Windows hits me with a  r o u n d   of goddamnmuthrforking   u p d a t e s, so I totally forget whatever it was I was doing when the disaster struck.

My posting here was a drive-by. I don't think I could face going around in circles any more, covering the same ground, coping with the obnoxious, getting nowhere because there is no sign or hope of co-operation or development. I can't see a nexus of experience coming together to pass on an evolving tradition of an alternative scholarly approach to biblical studies. No fostering of skills for that purpose. "I may be totally wrong, but I'm a dancing fool." Ed: I do note a few interesting new voices here.

I merely came looking for some data I may have posted here that I need, but didn't find.

Hello, my name's spin. I'm an ex-forum junkie. Beside Reddit I haven't touched a forum in several years.
Hi Spin

have you tried the archives https://bcharchive.org/ ?

Andrew Criddle
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DCHindley
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Re: Jesus and the Denarius story

Post by DCHindley »

spin wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:35 am
DCHindley wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:28 am Oops! I blame old age ...
Not old age, Dave. Just think of Bertie Russell or Noam Chomsky. It's pure senility...

...like when Windows crashes on me then I restart & Windows hits me with a  r o u n d   of goddamnmuthrforking   u p d a t e s, so I totally forget whatever it was I was doing when the disaster struck.

My posting here was a drive-by. I don't think I could face going around in circles any more, covering the same ground, coping with the obnoxious, getting nowhere because there is no sign or hope of co-operation or development. I can't see a nexus of experience coming together to pass on an evolving tradition of an alternative scholarly approach to biblical studies. No fostering of skills for that purpose. "I may be totally wrong, but I'm a dancing fool." Ed: I do note a few interesting new voices here.

I merely came looking for some data I may have posted here that I need, but didn't find.

Hello, my name's spin. I'm an ex-forum junkie. Beside Reddit I haven't touched a forum in several years.
Yes, that sums up nicely the SOP on this board. Now it is worse than ever.

The "Christianity" we knew in the past I doubt can ever recover from what has been done to it by recent history. Alvin Toffler is probably doing a jig in his grave, his theory of "future shock" (desperate defensive wagon circling occasioned by sheer information overload) being vindicated.

Keep well. DCH.
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spin
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Re: Jesus and the Denarius story

Post by spin »

andrewcriddle wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:59 am
spin wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:35 amI merely came looking for some data I may have posted here that I need, but didn't find.
have you tried the archives https://bcharchive.org/ ?
Yo Andrew!

Thanks for the suggestion. I was looking for stuff that could have been on any one of three fora, so I couldn't be sure of the location. But I'll keep it in mind.
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spin
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Re: Jesus and the Denarius story

Post by spin »

DCHindley wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:28 pmNow [the state of the forum?] is worse than ever.

The "Christianity" we knew in the past I doubt can ever recover from what has been done to it by recent history. Alvin Toffler is probably doing a jig in his grave, his theory of "future shock" (desperate defensive wagon circling occasioned by sheer information overload) being vindicated.
What isn't described by Gramsci's idea of cultural hegemony (privilege and why our lot doesn't really improve) gets filled in by a flotilla of cognitive biases (why we make poor choices through self-imposed filters: or, why heuristics is such a bitch).

Ed: There was something else I was going to
Keep well. DCH.
:cheers: :wave: :cheers:
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Jax
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Re: Jesus and the Denarius story

Post by Jax »

spin wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:35 am
DCHindley wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:28 am Oops! I blame old age ...
Not old age, Dave. Just think of Bertie Russell or Noam Chomsky. It's pure senility...

...like when Windows crashes on me then I restart & Windows hits me with a  r o u n d   of goddamnmuthrforking   u p d a t e s, so I totally forget whatever it was I was doing when the disaster struck.

My posting here was a drive-by. I don't think I could face going around in circles any more, covering the same ground, coping with the obnoxious, getting nowhere because there is no sign or hope of co-operation or development. I can't see a nexus of experience coming together to pass on an evolving tradition of an alternative scholarly approach to biblical studies. No fostering of skills for that purpose. "I may be totally wrong, but I'm a dancing fool." Ed: I do note a few interesting new voices here.

I merely came looking for some data I may have posted here that I need, but didn't find.

Hello, my name's spin. I'm an ex-forum junkie. Beside Reddit I haven't touched a forum in several years.
Hi spin, sorry you wont hang around as I for one have always enjoyed your posts. I can understand your attitude and frustration though. It does get old after a while.
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mlinssen
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Re: Jesus and the Denarius story

Post by mlinssen »

spin wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:35 am
DCHindley wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:28 am Oops! I blame old age ...
Not old age, Dave. Just think of Bertie Russell or Noam Chomsky. It's pure senility...

...like when Windows crashes on me then I restart & Windows hits me with a  r o u n d   of goddamnmuthrforking   u p d a t e s, so I totally forget whatever it was I was doing when the disaster struck.

My posting here was a drive-by. I don't think I could face going around in circles any more, covering the same ground, coping with the obnoxious, getting nowhere because there is no sign or hope of co-operation or development. I can't see a nexus of experience coming together to pass on an evolving tradition of an alternative scholarly approach to biblical studies. No fostering of skills for that purpose. "I may be totally wrong, but I'm a dancing fool." Ed: I do note a few interesting new voices here.

I merely came looking for some data I may have posted here that I need, but didn't find.

Hello, my name's spin. I'm an ex-forum junkie. Beside Reddit I haven't touched a forum in several years.
It's a bit like dumpster diving really, you can't do that all day or even every day of the week.
You can spend weeks out here bashing one single person into the proper (hehe) direction - only to find him having turned again completely after you turned your back - or you can use the forum for cherry-picking (1-2 cherries in every rim-filled basket just about) and publish findings based on that

I'm out here since 3 years now, just about. It's a great forum to quickly get up to speed with all the intricacies of "things Geewsus" but it quickly gets old exactly because of the fact that most people out here are exactly that - every benefit usually has its own concern which is intimately related to the benefit itself.
You either solidify here because your own Geewsus-path is highly solidified yourself, or you get on with your life. So it's good to see you go as I come and go often msyelf ;-) and I can just search other people's posts, that's what I use the forum for mostly these days. Rare few sane people like Dave always offering good material, it's all worth it

I'm an IT-guy in regular life, and yes, when Windows gets quirky that usually (if not always) is because it's already entered some twilight zone of an impending Update. I try to advance Updates so I can avoid that as at that point often one Update leads to another, yes.
"IT-guy" is a broad definition by the way
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mlinssen
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Re: Jesus and the Denarius story

Post by mlinssen »

spin wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:02 pm Driving by and noticing a thread on the denarius...

I thought some people would like to know that the denarius/tax story (Mk 12:15) was certainly apocryphal. The denarius(pdf) was not in circulation in Palestine in the first century. There is no hope for someone in Jerusalem to casually have a denarius on hand or for a person to ask for one. What's worse is that there were no heads on Jewish coins for apparently religious reasons. (Josephus AJ 18.55—18.3.1—says "our law forbids the making of images" over Pilate' setting up busts of the emperor in Jerusalem.) The idea of Jesus asking whose head is on the coin would have been inconceivable in Palestine, but no problem in Rome, where denarii with a head on each were in common usage.

I should add that the widow's offering in 12:42 is two leptons (a Greek coin), which is explained as the equivalent of a quadrans (another Roman coin), an explanation for a Roman audience.

(Just more pointers that Mark was written in Rome.)
ⲁ ⲩ ⲧⲥⲉⲃⲉ ⲓ̅ⲥ̅ ⲁ ⲩ ⲛⲟⲩⲃ ⲁⲩⲱ ⲡⲉϫⲁ ⲩ ⲛⲁ ϥ` ϫⲉ
did they show IS [dop] a(n) gold and said they to he :

Thomas logion 100, the word is the beautifully and typically Coptic NOUN ⲛⲟⲩⲃ, https://coptic-dictionary.org/entry.cgi?tla=C2427

No need to elaborate on the direction of dependence there, certainly not because of the anachronism that you mention.
The cleansed literal translation is (I'm at logion 58 at the mo, it'll be a few years):

100. did they show IS [dop] a gold and said they to him : they-who are-valuing [dop] Caesar they demand of us [dop] the taxes said he to them : give those-of Caesar to Caesar give those-of the god to the god and he-who mine is give! you(PL) to me him

The verb that Thomas uses really is https://coptic-dictionary.org/entry.cgi?tla=C5513 - 'to count, esteem'. It all is a no-brainer really where the Jesus story starts, unless you assume that Thomas was a magnificently great word wizard who had access to all writings in the world - and the Alexandria Library would perhaps fit for the latter requirement. I thought 'to value' was a very nice translation for both these very different words that evidently are extreme wordplay in this specific context

https://www.academia.edu/42110001
StephenGoranson
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Re: Note: Denarius Converter program

Post by StephenGoranson »

Though the Roman denarius was evidently not common in Judaea in the time of Jesus, it was not completely absent.
Ariel, D.T. 1982. A Survey of Coin Finds in Jerusalem (until the End of the Byzantine Period), Liber Annuus 32: 273-326.
Fabian E. Udoh, 2020. To Caesar What Is Caesar’s: Tribute, Taxes, and Imperial Administration in Early Roman Palestine
Brown Judaic Studies, 228-238
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DCHindley
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Re: Note: Denarius Converter program

Post by DCHindley »

I have a copy of Kenneth W Harl's Coinage in the Roman Economy, 300 BC to AD 700 (Johns Hopkins, 1996). See especially chapter three, "The Denarius and Overseas Expansion," and chapter five, "Currencies of the Roman East."

This suggests that Romans did not attempt to convert regional currencies into Roman ones, with the exception of the closed economy of Egypt which adopted modified forms of the drachma but of slightly different values.

In the east, silver coins such as cistophori & drachmae, were roughly equated with the denarius. The denarius was more of an accounting standard for other currencies.

No matter what the currency, it could be, and was, expressed as denarii. That means that the coin does not need to be present in a region to be used as a standard.

It would not be inconceivable that a local governor of the agora would have exemplars of the basic weights, measures, and coins. If local taxes are paid, they are paid in local currency, but translated into Roman money, usually denarii. So he has an exemplar denarius on hand to measure against coins presented in the market if their quality or genuineness was in question.
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