Born of the womb before sun and moon

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Stuart
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Re: Born of the womb before sun and moon

Post by Stuart »

We should also add Revelation chapter 12 to this discussion. It's a very astrological birth of Jesus story with the sun and moon featured.
davidmartin
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Re: Born of the womb before sun and moon

Post by davidmartin »

Stuart wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:05 am We should also add Revelation chapter 12 to this discussion. It's a very astrological birth of Jesus story with the sun and moon featured.
Yeah, I think some parts of Revelation contain elements of an earlier type gospel which used symbols like the tree of life, the crowning, the wedding banquet, that stuff and Revelation incorporated into it's own mythology. Just like that, all the later discussion found in Justin are derivative speculations as presumably all kinds of interpretations came along that became associated with various groupings, like Christ was created as part of the chain of creation in Genesis, an early gnostic cosmology but based on scripture even. The church father's had their own ideas as well. To me it looks so varied it's not really possible to figure out the progression of later developments I know i've given up even trying! lol
Secret Alias
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Re: Born of the womb before sun and moon

Post by Secret Alias »

Ps.72.17 "before the sun his name shall remain"
is an acknowledged future name of the messiah. Yinnon (יִנּ֪וֹן).
davidmartin
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Re: Born of the womb before sun and moon

Post by davidmartin »

Syriac
ܫܡܐ Name SH-M-A
ܫܡܫܐ Sun, also 'one who serves/servant' SH-M-SH-A
ܣܗܪܐ ݂݂Moon, S-H-R-A
ܣܝܢܐ Moon, S-I-N-A
Secret Alias
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Re: Born of the womb before sun and moon

Post by Secret Alias »

No etymological relationship between "name" and "sun"
mbuckley3
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Re: Born of the womb before sun and moon

Post by mbuckley3 »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:38 am Don't forget the Didache "Do not keep your fasts with the hypocrites. For they fast on Monday [the second day] and Thursday [the fifth day]; but you should fast on Wednesday [the fourth day] and Friday."
The connection between fasting and the fourth day of creation is explicit in Victorinus of Pettau, late C3. He uses it as the basis for an extended riff, established practice as a gateway to 'learning'. Those fazed by Irenaeus' justification of the four-fold gospel (AH 3.11) should look away now..

"'On the fourth day He made two lights in the heaven, the greater and the lesser, that one might rule over the day, the other over the night,' - the lights of the sun and moon and He placed the rest of the stars in heaven, that they might shine upon the earth, and by their positions distinguish the seasons, and years, and months, and days, and hours.
"Now is manifested the reason of the truth why the fourth day is called the Tetras, why we fast even to the ninth hour, or even to the evening, or why there should be a passing over even to the next day. Therefore this world of ours is composed of four elements - fire, water, heaven, earth. These four elements, therefore, form the quaternion of times or seasons. The sun, also, and the moon constitute throughout the space of the year four seasons - of spring, summer, autumn, winter; and these seasons make a quaternion. And to proceed further still from that principle, lo, there are four living creatures before God's throne, four Gospels, four rivers flowing in paradise; four generations of people from Adam to Noah, from Noah to Abraham, from Abraham to Moses, from Moses to Christ the Lord, the Son of God; and four living creatures, a man, a calf, a lion, an eagle; and four rivers, the Pison, the Gihon, the Tigris, and the Euphrates. The man Christ Jesus, the originator of these things whereof we have spoken, was taken prisoner by wicked hands, by a quaternion of soldiers. Therefore on account of his captivity by a quaternion, on account of the majesty of his works, - that the seasons also, wholesome to humanity, joyful for the harvests, tranquil for the tempests, may roll on, - therefore we make the fourth day a station or a supernumerary fast."
(De Fabrica Mundi 2-3, ANF tr.)
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Born of the womb before sun and moon

Post by Peter Kirby »

mbuckley3 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:36 pm Such a model post, Peter, interesting and clearly argued. Just some addenda.
Thank you! I also continue to be impressed by all your posts.
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