(THE GOSPEL OF MARK WITHIN JUDAISM, READING THE SECOND GOSPEL IN ITS ETHNIC LANDSCAPE, by JOHN R . VAN MAAREN, B.A., p. 256)
Note 121 reads
(my bold)
Now it becomes clear why even Mark is against Marcion.
precisely. Klinghardt has proved that Mcn precedes Mark without making (deliberately) not even a single reference to a theological argument. So, given what Klinghardt has already proved, my goal here is to find a theological reason behind Mark's digression about Jesus visiting the Phoenicia (precisely the same task Klinghardt himself will reserve for a next book).
I agree perfectly.
I am working my way through Klinghardt, and I am also sometimes struggling to find the thread of the argument. After convincingly establishing that *Ev preceded the Gospel of Luke, at the outset of the discussion of *Ev and Mark, he says (p. 199):Ken Olson wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:42 pm Your argument (to use the term generously) would seem to be circular. You are presupposing that Marcion was earlier than Mark and therefore Mark was reacting against Marcion. This appears to be an argument aimed at people who already accept that your belief that Marcion was earlier than Mark, not one for people who need to convinced of that conclusion and want to see evidence for it.
Saying "*Ev-priority over Mark is presupposed," "the assumption that Mark represents the first redaction," and "Assuming *Ev-priority over Mark" is a rocky way to start an examination of which came first. And indeed the reader must work to separate arguments for plausibility (which can go either way) from actual arguments for the direction of the dependence.For determining the editorial direction between *Ev and Mark, *Ev-priority over Mark is presupposed as working hypothesis for the subsequent examinations. If *Ev was broadly disseminated (Vetus Latina; Vetus Syra) prior to establishing the canonical edition (as suggested by text-historical observations), the assumption that Mark represents the first redaction of the allegedly oldest Gospel is plausible. Assuming *Ev-priority over Mark, the differences between the texts must be examined as being the likely result of the Markan redaction of *Ev.
Peter,Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:51 pm I am working my way through Klinghardt, and I am also sometimes struggling to find the thread of the argument. After convincingly establishing that *Ev preceded the Gospel of Luke, at the outset of the discussion of *Ev and Mark, he says (p. 199):
I may be able to recap the argument at some point.Ken Olson wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:39 amPeter,Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:51 pm I am working my way through Klinghardt, and I am also sometimes struggling to find the thread of the argument. After convincingly establishing that *Ev preceded the Gospel of Luke, at the outset of the discussion of *Ev and Mark, he says (p. 199):
You found Klinghardt's argument that the Evangelion preceded canonical Luke convincing? Now I'm really curious. I haven't been able to get hold of the book (it's not in libraries in my area yet, and I'm not willing to pay $200+ dollars for it), so I may not have any more to say on the topic until I've seen the K's argument. Could you recap the argument, or is it the sort of thing you have to read the first 199 pages to grasp?
Peter,