Does Marcion's Gospel mention John the Baptist?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Markus Vinzent
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 11:32 pm

Re: Does Marcion's Gospel mention John the Baptist?

Post by Markus Vinzent »

Dear all, I can only confirm what Stuart is saying here. John might be pre-Marcionite, as why would Marcion refer to him, if he was not known at all. Likewise, indeed, I think that Marcion is not at the head of everything, but that he collected oral traditions, as he did with Paul's letters. Unlike the latter, however, where he was able to have an author's name, he gathers oral traditions about Jesus without giving a source. Most likely, therefore, he depended on anonymous oral traditions, not authored written material.
Yet, if my reading of the sources were correct, he - with the best written Greek style - is the the first who not only wrote a gospel, but also created this new genre (something, I think, is strangely attributed to the one who, as all agree, wrote the poorest Greek).

Thanks for the discussion, which teaches me a lot. As I am in the last corrections of the mentioned book where John figures prominently, I refer to this forum, as I think, it is just great to have this conversation.
User avatar
mlinssen
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:01 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Does Marcion's Gospel mention John the Baptist?

Post by mlinssen »

Good luck wrapping up the book Markus, I'm looking forward to reading it

And discover what Mark added to Marcion ;)
User avatar
Secret Alias
Posts: 13761
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Does Marcion's Gospel mention John the Baptist?

Post by Secret Alias »

Or another John was originally meant.
User avatar
mlinssen
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:01 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Does Marcion's Gospel mention John the Baptist?

Post by mlinssen »

Markus Vinzent wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:27 am Dear all, I can only confirm what Stuart is saying here. John might be pre-Marcionite, as why would Marcion refer to him, if he was not known at all. Likewise, indeed, I think that Marcion is not at the head of everything, but that he collected oral traditions, as he did with Paul's letters. Unlike the latter, however, where he was able to have an author's name, he gathers oral traditions about Jesus without giving a source. Most likely, therefore, he depended on anonymous oral traditions, not authored written material.
Agreed. I would think that "unauthored" written material applies better, which could be based on "anonymous oral traditions" of course
Yet, if my reading of the sources were correct, he - with the best written Greek style - is the the first who not only wrote a gospel, but also created this new genre (something, I think, is strangely attributed to the one who, as all agree, wrote the poorest Greek).

Thanks for the discussion, which teaches me a lot. As I am in the last corrections of the mentioned book where John figures prominently, I refer to this forum, as I think, it is just great to have this conversation.
Dear Markus, would you please also publish it in ebook? I don't care about the price tag, but hard copies make for such poor research material. I could buy the paper book, scan it and OCR it, but I'd rather just have it at the ready.
I'd really appreciate it, and I think it would greatly benefit the (re)use of your material

Herzlich vielen Dank!
Post Reply