gryan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:33 am
mlinssen wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:49 pm
Thomas logion 96:
[ⲡⲉϫⲉ] ⲓ̅ⲥ̅ ϫⲉ ⲧ ⲙⲛ̄ⲧ ⲉⲣⲟ ⲙ̄ ⲡ ⲉⲓⲱⲧ` ⲉ ⲥ ⲧⲛ̄ⲧⲱ[ⲛ ⲉ ⲩ] ⲥϩⲓⲙⲉ
ⲡⲉϫⲉ- ⲓⲥ ϫⲉ- ⲧ- ⲙⲛⲧ- ⲣⲣⲟ ⲛ- ⲡ- ⲉⲓⲱⲧ ⲉ- ⸗ⲥ ⲧⲟⲛⲧⲛ+ ⲉ- ⲟⲩ- ⲥϩⲓⲙⲉ
said IS : the(F) reign-of(F) king of the father she is-comparable to a woman
ⲁ ⲥ ϫⲓ ⲛ̄ ⲟⲩ ⲕⲟⲩⲉⲓ ⲛ̄ ⲥⲁⲉⲓⲣ [ⲁ ⲥ ϩⲟ]ⲡ ϥ` ϩⲛ̄ ⲟⲩ ϣⲱⲧⲉ
ⲁ- ⸗ⲥ ϫⲓ ⲛ- ⲟⲩ- ⲕⲟⲩⲓ ⲛ- ⲥⲓⲣ ⲁ- ⸗ⲥ ϩⲱⲡ ⲛⲧⲟϥ ϩⲛ- ⲟⲩ- ϣⲱⲧⲉ
did she take [dop] a little [al] first-milk did she hide him in a(n) dough
ⲁ ⲥ ⲁⲁ ϥ ⲛ̄ ϩⲛ̄ ⲛ[ⲟϭ ⲛ̄] ⲛ ⲟⲉⲓⲕ` ⲡⲉⲧ ⲉⲩⲙ̄ ⲙⲁⲁϫⲉ ⲙ̄ⲙⲟ ϥ ⲙⲁ[ⲣⲉ ϥ ⲥⲱ]ⲧⲙ̄
ⲁ- ⸗ⲥ ⲉⲓⲣⲉ ⲛⲧⲟϥ ⲛ- ϩⲟⲉⲓⲛⲉ ⲛⲟϭ ⲛ- ⲛ- ⲟⲉⲓⲕ ⲡⲉⲧ ⲟⲩⲛ- ⲙⲁⲁϫⲉ ⲙⲙⲟ⸗ ⲛⲧⲟϥ ⲙⲁⲣⲉ- ⲛⲧⲟϥ ⲥⲱⲧⲙ
did she make-be him of some(PL) great [al] loaf he-who there-be ear within he let! he hear
The usual recipe from my translation: first row is MS transcript, second row is Crum (and KELLIA CDO) dictionary entry, third row is translation
You'll all be familiar with it, its parallels can be found in the NT:
Matthew 13:33 Ἄλλην (Another) παραβολὴν (parable) ἐλάλησεν (spoke He) αὐτοῖς (to them): “Ὁμοία (Like) ἐστὶν (is) ἡ (the) βασιλεία (kingdom) τῶν (of the) οὐρανῶν (heavens) ζύμῃ (to leaven), ἣν (which) λαβοῦσα (having taken), γυνὴ (a woman) ἐνέκρυψεν (hid) εἰς (in) ἀλεύρου (of flour) σάτα (measures) τρία (three), ἕως (until) οὗ (of it) ἐζυμώθη (was leavened) ὅλον (all).”
Luke 13:20 Καὶ (And) πάλιν (again) εἶπεν (He said), “Τίνι (To what) ὁμοιώσω (shall I liken) τὴν (the) βασιλείαν (kingdom) τοῦ (-) Θεοῦ (of God)? 21 ὁμοία (Like) ἐστὶν (it is) ζύμῃ (to leaven), ἣν (which) λαβοῦσα (having taken), γυνὴ (a woman) ἔκρυψεν (hid) εἰς (in) ἀλεύρου (of meal) σάτα (measures) τρία (three) ἕως (until) οὗ (it) ἐζυμώθη (was leavened) ὅλον (all).”
Re: "a little"
I note that there is a saying used twice by Paul has something in common with gThomas that is lacking in gMatt/gLuke-- "a little."
μικρὰ ζύμη ὅλον τὸ φύραμα ζυμοῖ
A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
How does the Greek adj. μικρός line up with the Coptic word for "a little"? Are the two words good equivalents for this possible parallel between Paul and gThomas? Are they used in translations of Greek to Coptic or Coptic to Greek elsewhere?
ⲕⲟⲩⲉⲓ is the word in there, Sub-Akhmimic for
https://coptic-dictionary.org/entry.cgi?tla=C1054
'Small, few, young'. Why do I translate it with little (I see not enough difference between small and little, and prefer the latter in Thomas). Because Thomas uses all three words:
(From the English-Coptic concordance in my Translation)
being-few ⲥⲃⲟⲕ+ Verb 20, 73
The mustard seed is actually fewer than all the seeds, not smaller or "more little" (or μικρότερον, as Matthew and Mark have it), just as the workers for the harvest are few in logion 73: Matthew 9:37 has ὀλίγοι there, and you can easily recognise Matthew's Greek in Thomas' ⲉⲣⲅⲁⲧⲏⲥ - a fine example of verbatim agreement across Greek and Coptic (it's a Greek loanword in Coptic, one of the +/- 500 in Thomas)
little ⲕⲟⲩⲓ Adjective 4, 8, 37, 46, 65, 96
little-person ⲕⲟⲩⲓ Noun masculine 22
I'll start straight away with the infamous logion 22 where little persons take milk and "will enter the kingdom": those could be young a well, but:
young ϣⲏⲙ Adjective 4, 21, 37
young-thing ϣⲏⲙ Noun 41
But the crux is in logion 37, where both this and the next word is: ⲛⲓ ⲕⲟⲩⲉⲓ ⲛ̄ ϣⲏⲣⲉ ϣⲏⲙ - those ... children ... (young as well as little appear here as adjectives to the same noun) and with all things combined, given the presumption that Thomas, like us, uses different words for different things, I can only translate as I have, after having tried all possible combinations.
The "sacrifice" I had to take (sic) is that the man who doesn't have in his hands gets taken away the "young-thing" that he has; it is what it is but that is the literal, fully normalised translation and it must be the starting point to anything beyond that. He holds something fresh in his hand, nascent - that is one of the perks when you start off with a fully normalised translation
So, in Thomas the colostrum is little, just like in Paul the leaven is little. Native Coptic in Thomas, no Greek loanword mikros in Coptic AFAIK - nothing matches here
Now, how about outside Thomas? 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Galatians 5:9
Take your pick from these Coptic bibles:
https://copticarabicbible.files.wordpre ... nglish.pdf (alas, no Paul)
http://lexicity.com/resources/coptic/texts/ - too many to choose from but a handy resource for Coptic texts
Or, of course, the Coptic Scriptorium:
https://coptot.manuscriptroom.com/home (oh, only "OT")
I usually go with
https://www.stepbible.org/version.jsp?v ... pSahHorner - that place has it all
Gal 5:9 ϣⲁⲣⲉ
ⲟⲩ ⲕⲟⲩⲓ̈ ⲛ̅ ⲑⲁⲃ ⲧⲣⲉⲡⲟⲩⲱϣⲙ̅ ⲧⲏⲣϥ̅ ϥⲓ.
It's really beautiful, isn't it? I can just go there, click some, copy paste, and here we have these beautiful Coptic fonts. That, on a side note - it touches the core of my line of regular work and this would have been inconceivable just decades ago. The amount and scale of advancement on all different kinds of IT biotope aspects simply is astonishing. On a technological level, we are gods among gods really - just Sunday evening contemplations here, sorry LOL
I put some extra space in that highlighted part: a little [of] leaven.
You can see that a different noun is used, but the same adjective as in Thomas!
1 Corinthians 5:6ⲛ̅ⲛⲁⲛⲟⲩⲡⲉⲧⲛ̅ϣⲟⲩϣⲟⲩ ⲁⲛ· ⲛ̅ⲧⲉⲧⲛ̅ⲥⲟⲟⲩⲛ ⲁⲛ ϫⲉ ϣⲁⲣⲉ
ⲟⲩ ⲕⲟⲩⲓ̈ ⲛ̅ ⲑⲁⲃ ⲧⲣⲉⲡⲟⲩⲱϣⲙ̅ ⲧⲏⲣϥ̅ ϥⲓ. 7ϥⲓ ⲙ̅ⲡⲓ
ⲑⲁⲃ ⲛ̅ⲁⲥ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ⲛ̅ϩⲏⲧⲧⲏⲩⲧⲛ̅ ϫⲉ ⲉⲧⲉⲧⲛⲉϣⲱⲡⲉ ⲛ̅ⲟⲩⲟⲩⲱϣⲙ̅ ⲛ̅ⲃⲣ̅ⲣⲉ ⲕⲁⲧⲁⲑⲉ ⲉⲛⲧⲉⲧⲛ̅ϩⲉⲛⲁ
ⲑⲁⲃ· ⲕⲁⲓⲅⲁⲣ ⲁⲩϣⲱⲱⲧ ⲙ̅ⲡⲉⲛⲡⲁⲥⲭⲁ ϩⲁⲣⲟⲛ ⲡⲉⲭ̅ⲥ̅. 8ϩⲱⲥⲧⲉ ⲙⲁⲣⲛ̅ⲣ̅ϣⲁ ϩⲛ̅ⲟⲩ
ⲑⲁⲃ ⲁⲛ ⲛ̅ⲁⲥ. ⲟⲩⲇⲉ ϩⲛ̅ⲟⲩ
ⲑⲁⲃ ⲁⲛ ⲛ̅ⲕⲁⲕⲓⲁ ϩⲓⲡⲟⲛⲏⲣⲓⲁ. ⲁⲗⲗⲁ ϩⲛ̅ϩⲉⲛⲁ
ⲑⲁⲃ ⲛ̅ⲧⲃⲃⲟ ϩⲓⲙⲉ
Likewise. No one in his right mind would pick the word in Thomas, it is dangerously close to ambivalence and confusion - which is exactly the point, of course, like so many other things in Thomas
Sorry, long answer there