Secret Alias wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:13 pm
I don't understand how 1 Corinthians itself can be used to provide 'another example' of pagan idolatry in Christianity besides 1 Corinthians.
I think this was my first reply to Secret Alias in well over a year. I have avoided responding to him because it's a waste of time. His reply here may give other readers some idea of why.
Secret Alias asked for 'a single example of early Christians engaging in PAGAN idolatry?' and I gave one. Then he protests that isn't 'another example' of Christians engaging in pagan idolatry besides 1 Corinthians and puts 'another example' in quotation marks as though that is what he had asked for, which it is not.
I am not being merely pedantic here. SA proposes that we should read 1 Cor. 10.20 as referring back to v.18, that the 'they' in the text refers to the people of Israel in v.18.
18 Consider the people of Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar? 19 What do I imply then? That food sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, I imply that what [they/] pagans sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be partners with demons.
I think he's wrong to read it that way, as I think Paul gives two examples of worship, describing Christian worship in 10.16-17 and Jewish worship in 10.18, followed by a transitional verse 10.19 in which he draws out an implication about what constitutes worship and applies it to pagan idolatrous worship in v. 20 (if you're with a bunch of people worshipping and you're doing what they're doing, you're a worshipper too). But SA's reading is at least a possible reading of v. 10.20, if a weak and un-necessary one.
But then we have the example of Christians eating in the temple of an idol in 1 Cor. 8:
1 Cor. 8.9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if others see you, who possess knowledge, eating in the temple of an idol, might they not, since their conscience is weak, be encouraged to the point of eating food sacrificed to idols?
It is not an example from ANOTHER source, but it is a CLEAR example of Paul dealing with the problem of Christians engaging in pagan idolatry in Corinth. Since in 1 Corinthians Paul is responding to a letter some of the Corinthians wrote him asking him to address problems that have arisen in the Corinthian church, we must assume this is most probably in Corinth. It is not plausible to argue that Paul is talking about a Jewish temple where sacrifice is performed in Corinth, and scarcely more plausible to think Paul is referring to weak and strong members of the Corinthian church having made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and the event having taken place there. The overwhelmingly probable implication is that Paul is referring to this occurring in Corinth.
So SA wants to contest my reading of 1 Cor. 10.20 and say it refers to Jews. But I do not believe he has a plausible alternative reading for 1 Cor. 8.9-10. It is a clear example of the problem of Christians eating meat offered to idols in a pagan temple - whether they thought what they were doing constituted worship or not, Paul thinks it does (which is the point of chapter 10).
There is an extremely plausible historical context in which this problem can be understood. Paul's converts are recent. They are Corinthians, and in all probability participated in the temple feasts in Corinth before Paul came and persuaded them to accept Christianity. For the poorer members of the church, the temple feasts (i.e, eating the sacrificial animals provided by rich donors) may well have been their main source of meat. They were also one of the major social occasions in the city, where the people of the city came together as a group. Paul had told the Corinthian converts that they did not have to withdraw from the larger society in which they lived and obey the Mosaic laws, dietary or otherwise. He told them food is just food and that idols are just material objects, not gods. Some of them clearly interpreted this to mean that they did not have to stop attending feats, because the food that is served there is just food and the idols are just inanimate objects. They inferred that attending the feasts could do them no harm.
This is actually a rational interpretation of what Paul had said about food and idols, but Paul had clearly not foreseen that his Christian converts would interpret what he said this way (some did not, which is why they wrote to him about it) and continue to take part in pagan feasts, which he considers to be worship, and he objects that those who participate in the feasts will harm both other members of the church (in chapter 8) and themselves (chapter 10).
SA has gone on to give examples of Christians accusing Jews of idolatry from outside 1 Corinthians to support his argument that v 10.20 is referring to Jews. However, we have a clear example of Christians eating idol meat in chapter 8, and one black swan falsifies the proposition that all swans are white. I submit that it makes more sense to interpret chapter 10 in the context of chapter 8 (I think Paul is making a single extended argument in chapters 8-10) in the same work than to go outside 1 Corinthians to interpret 1 Cor. 10.20.
I don't expect that SA will accept this argument or even represent it fairly and try to answer it in its strongest form. His previous record suggests he will instead mock it (and me) and evade responding the actual point being made.
Best,
Ken