Codex Sinaiticus - the white parchment Friderico-Augustanus

[Ulan]

We know for sure that the manuscript had been used for book repairs in St. Catherine's monastery long before Tischendorf was born. Why anyone is trying to judge Tischendorf's character in order to gauge the age of the manuscript is beyond me. Who cares? It doesn't matter.

[John T]

We know for sure that the manuscript had been used for book repairs in St. Catherine's monastery long before Tischendorf was born. Why anyone is trying to judge Tischendorf's character in order to gauge the age of the manuscript is beyond me. Who cares? It doesn't matter.

The monks at St. Catherine monastery have a long history of producing/keeping old but error riddled copies of ancient texts. They also have a history of releasing a few here and there for monetary gain. e.g. Morton Smith.

So, what is the 2022 status of C14 testing of Codex Sinaiticus?
Inquiring minds would like to know.

[Secret Alias]

What did Morton Smith have to do with (a) St Catherine's or (b) bribing monks?

[John T]

What did Morton Smith have to do with (a) St Catherine's or (b) bribing monks?

Nothing. I made a mistake. Morton Smith was duped by the monks at Mara Saba.

Thanks for the opportunity to correct.

[Leucius Charinus]

So, what is the 2022 status of C14 testing of Codex Sinaiticus?

Here is a 2021 status from the British Library

REQUEST:

Subject: Future C14 dating of Codex Sinaiticus?
From: me
To: Peter Toth @ The British Library
Sent: 1/11/21 11:28 PM


Dear Peter,

I am wondering whether the British Library perhaps will, at some time in the future, consider C14 dating Codex Sinaiticus in order - to obtain through an independent scientific method, information concerning the correct century of this ancient manuscript, and whether the date from radiocarbon will agree with or call for modification of existing date estimates based on other methods such as paleographic dating.

I obtained your email address from Codex Sinaiticus - Contact

Kind regards

Me

RESPONSE

RE: Subject: Future C14 dating of Codex Sinaiticus?
From: Peter Toth @ The British Library
To: me
Sent: 2/9/21 11:25 PM

Dear Mr Brown,

Thank you very much for your message and interest in this manuscript and please accept my apologies for replying with such a delay.

We are all aware of the ongoing doubts and concerns about the dating of this extraordinary manuscript. However, the British Library does currently have no plans to undertake C14 dating of the Codex Sinaiticus, nor has it to my knowledge or as recorded undertaken this in the past. The main reason behind this decision is that C14 is a destructive form of technical analysis: it requires a sample to be physically separated and destroyed from an artefact which is why it is not undertaken on BL collection items. (The BL – as you probably know – has no detached/unwritten fragments of the MS similar to the ones currently kept at the Monastery of St Catherine on Sinai – so it would indeed require an actual intervention and damage to be made on the brilliantly preserved parchment folios of this MS).

Moreover, these methods sometimes lead to inconclusive and unhelpful results in dating manuscripts, so in our present view (and, also in the view of several of our predecessors) the scholarly benefits of undertaking this do not outweigh or justify the losses that would occur to this critically significant artefact if C14 was undertaken. Contextual and imaging analysis can, in our opinion, prove as reliable and much less harmful way to interpret artefacts like this and were widely and successfully applied in various other manuscripts.

There is broad scholarly consensus on the dating of this manuscript based on these well-established criteria for judging the date of a manuscript. More productive than C14 was the non-destructive analysis and identification of the type of skins and the animal type origins of the pages of Codex Sinaiticus, undertaken within and disseminated through the Codex Project. See, for example,
http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/proje ... hment.aspx

as well as the thorough examination of the various inks used throughout the manuscript http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/project/c ... n_ink.aspx.

I hope this helps to clarify the background of the BL’s policies and decisions as to the date of this remarkable manuscript.

Best wishes

Peter Toth (BL)

[John T]

Leucius Charinus,

Thanks for the update. I'm no expert but I hear modern day C14 does not require as much material as it used to. That in fact, they can take small scrapings from the side edges of the parchment and get reliable results. Currently, thousands of documents at Saint Catherine's monastery are going through scientific testing.

http://sinaipalimpsests.org/

I could be wrong (probably) but it is my understanding that the monks at St. Catherine's still have in possession a few folios of the Codex Sinaiticus. If true and they are not being tested, it should tell you something.

https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/codex-sinaiticus

Kinda of makes you wonder what they are trying to hide.
And no, I'm not a King James Only person.

[Steven Avery]

Yes, Steven Avery's investigation was well researched to the point I changed my view and I now agree with him that testing is in order.

Thank you, John T.

Your change of position and compliment is appreciated.

And no, I'm not a King James Only person.

Noted. That whole idea that this is a KJB issue is a canard. I was even at first defending Sinaiticus as authentic when the issue came up, and became rather surprised when I started to follow the real evidence.

It is true that Sinaiticus having an 1800s date will be very embarrassing for the pseudo-science of textual criticism. Yet, with what we have seen in public health the last years, people in general are became more wary of "follow the science", when there is really nothing there, and "follow the science" means "follow the money" and institutionalized clap-trap.

[Steven Avery]

Leucius Charinus,

Thanks for the update. I'm no expert but I hear modern day C14 does not require as much material as it used to. That in fact, they can take small scrapings from the side edges of the parchment and get reliable results. Currently, thousands of documents at Saint Catherine's monastery are going through scientific testing.

http://sinaipalimpsests.org/

I could be wrong (probably) but it is my understanding that the monks at St. Catherine's still have in possession a few folios of the Codex Sinaiticus. If true and they are not being tested, it should tell you something.

https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/codex-sinaiticus

Kinda of makes you wonder what they are trying to hide.
And no, I'm not a King James Only person.

You raise a good point.

There are many tests available, and many are non-destructive as well.

If in fact they have equipment, they are doing testing, and they are bypassing Codex Simoneides/Sinaiticus, that is rather telling. Maybe we can pursue this question.

===============

btw, my compliments to this forum for having the most perceptive discussions of the Sinaiticus issues.

[Steven Avery]

So, what is the 2022 status of C14 testing of Codex Sinaiticus?

Here is a 2021 status from the British Library

Thanks for the update!

[StephenGoranson]

Brent Nongbri, who calls for C14 testing of Sinaiticus, wrote:

"I also suggest that this particular range of possible dates (ca. 300 – 425 CE) makes the codex a good candidate for radiocarbon analysis."
https://brentnongbri.com/2022/08/03/a-n ... inaiticus/

I agree with him.
Nothing about modern forgery claims there.