mlinssen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:10 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:22 am
mlinssen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:17 pm
This paper deals with an even more exceptional case, namely the fact that the NHL contains the only text in the entire world that combines ⲭⲣⲏⲥⲧⲓⲁⲛⲟⲥ as well as ⲭⲣⲓⲥⲧⲓⲁⲛⲟⲥ in one and the same text; Philip is this most unique text, and Philip contains it all: ⲓⲥ̅, ⲓ̅ⲏ̅ⲥ, ⲭⲥ̅, ⲭⲣⲥ̅, ⲭⲣⲏⲥⲧⲓⲁⲛⲟⲥ and ⲭⲣⲓⲥⲧⲓⲁⲛⲟⲥ
That is not all: Philip explains what these ligatures signify, whence they derive, yet most importantly:
which came before what.
Philip instructs us about Chrestianity preceding Christianity, and how and why Chrestians came to be named Christian.
https://www.academia.edu/89583617/From_ ... _the_grave
Of the series in the study Philip places the ligature
ⲭⲥ̅ first.
It occurs prior to (6) in (4) (Patterson-Brown)
The day the ⲭⲥ̅ came !!!
4. A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die. Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive — and this-one is in danger of dying, for he is alive since the day that the ⲭⲥ̅ came.
5. The system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out.
I take it that a "nationalist" is ἐθνικός (éthnos, “tribe, country, nation”) ? Isenberg, Barnstone and Meyer translates it as "Gentile". Which is the term Christians through to Eusebius (perhaps further) used to mean the Hellenes or the graeco-Roman "nation". The Christians saw the Hebrews as a nation and also saw themselves as a nation. Eusebius uses the term the nation of the Christians here and there, and in Josephus.
Philip introduces the abbreviation ⲭⲥ̅ by telling the reader that the system of these abbreviations in invented / created.
What does this mean? It looks like Philip is discussing the
ⲭⲥ̅ with reference to an invented system of runes.
What does "
the cities are constructed, the dead carried out" mean? Who precisely was
" in danger of dying" ?
A Christian interpretation of this might allude to the persecution of Christians. Another interpretation might allude to the persecution and intolerance of the Christians against the Hellenes during the Christian revolution of the 4th century (325-381 CE). The NHL is dated to around the mid 4th century. When did Philip write?
The day the ⲭⲥ̅ came ?
Is Philip referring to the day that the Constantine NT Bible codex appeared to the "pagan" elites in the eastern empire? The day that the eastern empire first beheld the
ⲭⲥ̅ in an imperially circulated Greek codex?
It is typical for you, Pete, to do nothing with that which is presented.
It doesn't matter what the topic or post is, you always take all of it into a context and content of your own - which you then even manage to completely obfuscate.
You never give any answers, you only pose questions - you only distract and disperse. In essence, you act like the typical apologist whose main goal is to clutter and eclipse everything so it remains under an opaque blanket of bland bias
As far as I am concerned I have contributed -
for example:
ⲭⲥ & ⲭⲣⲥ: The Coptic Runes of Christ in the Gospel of Philip
ⲓⲥ & ⲓⲏⲥ: The Coptic Runes of Jesus in the Gospel of Philip
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9722
The two ligatures for Jesus - IS and IHS - in the Gospel of Thomas
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9760
I am an amateur historian.
"Historia" means "enquiry".
Hence the boatload of questions.
I take it that a "nationalist" is ἐθνικός (éthnos, “tribe, country, nation”) ?
https://metalogos.org/files/ph_interlin/ph004.html
Brown's interlinear, with transcription from Till on the same page:
https://metalogos.org/files/till/w-till-01.gif
ϩⲉⲑⲛⲓⲕⲟⲥ -
https://coptic-dictionary.org/entry.cgi?tla=C11078
You could easily have figured that out for yourself, but why would you?
Philip introduces the abbreviation ⲭⲥ̅ by telling the reader that the system of these abbreviations in invented / created.
No he doesn't, Pete.
https://metalogos.org/files/ph_interlin/ph005.html
https://metalogos.org/files/till/w-till-01.gif
ⲥⲉ ⲥⲱⲛⲧ ⲙ ⲡ ⲕⲟⲥⲙⲟⲥ ⲥⲉ ⲣ ⲕⲟⲥⲙⲉⲓ ⲛ ⲙ ⲡⲟⲗⲉⲓⲥ ⲥⲉ ϥⲓ ⲙ ⲡⲉⲧ ⲙⲟⲟⲩⲧ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ
ⲥⲉ- ⲥⲱⲛⲧ ⲛ- ⲡ- ⲕⲟⲥⲙⲟⲥ ⲥⲉ- ⲉⲓⲣⲉ ⲕⲟⲥⲙⲉⲓ ⲛ- ⲛ- ⲡⲟⲗⲉⲓⲥ ⲥⲉ- ϥⲓ ⲛ- ⲡⲉⲧ- ⲙⲟⲩ+ ⲉⲃⲟⲗ
They create [dop] the World they make-be Decorate [dop] the(PL) city they carry [dop] he-who be-dead outward
THEY CREATE THE KOSMOS, THEY KOSMOS-ISE THE CITIES, THEY CARRY THE DEAD(SG) OUTWARD
ⲕⲟⲥⲙⲟⲥ is a pivotal concept in Thomas and the NHL, with its primary meaning of Order, and secondary meaning of Decoration:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... Dko%2Fsmos
It is a concept much like Plato's cave, and in Thomas it is the reflection that we create of the real world: we form ourselves a dollhouse image of the world "that we can live with".
Philip states that we do this and even do the same to the cities: a Polis is a superfluous loanword in Egyptian and evidently has a higher meaning here.
But the punch line is in the last phrase:
https://coptic-dictionary.org/entry.cgi?tla=C6264 - take (away), displace. Why is the subject singular? That likely is symbolic, and if we view this entire logion as a unit then what we have here is this:
THEY CREATE THE KOSMOS, KOSMOS-ISE THE POLISES, TAKE OUT WHAT IS DEAD
The whole point in responding was to agree that Philip is indeed a most unique text. It certainly does contain it all: ⲓⲥ̅, ⲓ̅ⲏ̅ⲥ, ⲭⲥ̅, ⲭⲣⲥ̅, ⲭⲣⲏⲥⲧⲓⲁⲛⲟⲥ and ⲭⲣⲓⲥⲧⲓⲁⲛⲟⲥ. I made the comment that Philip could be a form of "Rosetta Stone" for ⲓⲥ̅, ⲓ̅ⲏ̅ⲥ, ⲭⲥ̅, ⲭⲣⲥ̅, ⲭⲣⲏⲥⲧⲓⲁⲛⲟⲥ and ⲭⲣⲓⲥⲧⲓⲁⲛⲟⲥ.
However of this series it is the
ⲭⲥ̅ that is introduced before the others. IMO this should be explained: what is the
ⲭⲥ̅ and how is it introduced? Your response above - perhaps unintentionally - does not address the initial appearance of the
ⲭⲥ̅ . Neither - also perhaps unintentionally - does your linked paper.
Here is a revised translation of 4 and 5. Note that the
ⲭⲥ̅ could conceivably be migrated from 4 to 5 and still preserve meaning. I have included 6 because that is where your formal study starts.
Here we have Philip leading to the very first description of the arrival date of the "nomina sacra"
ⲭⲥ̅ - the ligature currently thought to represent Chrestos / Christos.
The Day the ⲭⲥ̅ first appeared
4. An unbeliever / heathen [1] does not die
for he has never lived
so that he could die
whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive
and this-one is in danger of dying
for he is alive (to the truth)
since the day that the
ⲭⲥ̅ [2] came
5. they create the (lawful) order [3]
they (lawfully) order / govern [4] the cities
they carry the dead (sg) outward.
6. When we were Hebrew we were made orphan;
we had only our mother.
Yet after we became
Chrestian [5],
father came to be with mother to us.
[1] C11078 ϩⲉⲑⲛⲓⲕⲟⲥ - unbelieving, worldly, pagan, heathen
examples assocated with "tax collectors"
[2]
ⲭⲥ̅ - First mentioned ligature for "Christos" / "Chrestos" in Philip
(Second mentioned ligature in Philip is XRS)
[3] κόσμος (kósmos) n. - order; lawful order, government;
mode, fashion; ornament, decoration; honour, credit; ruler;
world, universe, the earth; mankind
[4] "kosmos-ise" (verb) - order; lawfully ordered, via government
[5]
https://www.academia.edu/89583617/From_ ... _the_grave
Still this can be taken to two extremes: either they created the whole fake concept of turning whatever is real into a dead system much like the Matrix, or they made us all aware of said Matrix
Philip could be saying that "since the day that the "nomina sacra"
ⲭⲥ̅ came they created the (lawful) order, they governed the cities, they carried the dead outward. Or indeed the day that Christos came this stuff then happened.
But it most certainly has nothing to do with your short sighted concoctions Pete
Historians are quite aware that the Christian revolution of the 4th century started in the cities and only later spread out to the rural areas where the "pagans" lived. Historians are also aware that Constantine (and Constantius) were the lawful Pontifex Maximus, and as such were responsible for the "Christianisation of the law and the order.
Finally historians are generally in agreement that Constantine had the NT Bible codex lavishly published and circulated as a political instrument, and that that in these codices the abbreviated "nomina sacra" ligatures for Christ appeared as
ⲭⲥ̅ .
Unfortunately historians are not quite sure about the authorship date for Philip.