My thought was that the canonical emendation of Galatians 4:4, adding “born of a woman, born under the law”, would have been a known and convenient weapon against Marcionites, for someone as orthodox as Jacob. By attributing “not born of a woman” to Marcion, he is simply citing the very text that had been contrived and inserted centuries earlier for the purpose of refuting the heretic out of the mouth of his apostle.
The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author IDed
Re: The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author
Re: The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author
What about 6:3? ("Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?")
Re: The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author
Very well. I forgot that Mark cites the name ‘Mary.’
Nevertheless, the mere lack of a virgin birth story, or a claim to Davidic or Abrahamic seed quality, or a rant about flesh, ought not put Mark under the suspicion, for Jacob, of teaching docetism. He seems to think that Marcion was a docetic heretic precisely because he failed to include these Lukan, Johannine bits.
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Re: The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author
So what other source would the Marcionites be citing here other than gospel? One of the Happy Days novels.It attributes an implausible saying to Marcion, apparently as direct discourse, consisting of recycled heresiology.
It's sort of like, if the Samaritans cite something about Moses it's found in the Pentateuch. If the Marcionites say something about Jesus the source can only be the gospel. My porn addicted friend Peter something he saw jerking off last night.
Re: The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author
Yeah but.... I'm not so sure that the name Mary was in the original version of Mark.
If we take Mark as the first Gospel (some now dispute), we can take "proto-Luke", John, and Marcion as works derived from Mark, none of which use the name Mary for the mother of Jesus.
I suspect that when Mark was added to the NT collection in the mid 2nd century that the editor engaged in some harmonization and put the name Mary into Mark from Matthew.
Of course we may never be able to prove this.
Re: The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author
Ok maybe this is a strange idea— that the Marcionite Lord “stole the place of the maker.” Brings to mind the harpagmon of Phiippians 2:6, but that hardly clarifies it."For Marcion said, ‘Our Lord was not born from a woman
but rather stole the place of the maker,
How can this be a heretical concept, much less a reference to the supposed descent to Capharnaum (or the road to Jericho, if you like)? By Jacob’s time the Christian empire for 200 years had recited the creed of a son of god who “came down from heaven.” Completely banal.came down,
Is this setting related to some Gospel episode?and appeared first between Jerusalem and Jericho
docetism for kidsas a human being through a pretence, through illusions and in a likeness, for he did not have a body.’
Re: The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author
What this Jacob adds of new is only this point:
The place of the maker is expected by the Scriptures for YHWH and his messiah. If Marcion's Jesus is said to have stolen a such place, then the entire point is that Marcion used the Jewish scriptures to describe the descent of the alien, not of the messiah of YHWH.
but rather stole the place of the maker
The place of the maker is expected by the Scriptures for YHWH and his messiah. If Marcion's Jesus is said to have stolen a such place, then the entire point is that Marcion used the Jewish scriptures to describe the descent of the alien, not of the messiah of YHWH.
Re: The "Anonymous" Document in the British Museum Which Confirms Marcion's Gospel Began With a Descent in Judea Author
Does Jacob even know that Marcion "used the Jewish scriptures"?Giuseppe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:37 pm What this Jacob adds of new is only this point:
but rather stole the place of the maker
The place of the maker is expected by the Scriptures for YHWH and his messiah. If Marcion's Jesus is said to have stolen a such place, then the entire point is that Marcion used the Jewish scriptures to describe the descent of the alien, not of the messiah of YHWH.
Maybe "the place of the maker" is just the lower cosmos. "Stole" might be satirical, with a meaning closer to "usurped" or something. But it would be a little odd if Jacob were taking for granted the gnostic multi-level cosmos, and satirizing it. As I said earlier, most of his statement is sophomoric, recycled, generic.