NT, OT, LXX and MT: Chester Beatty Isaiah

[mlinssen]

Scout's honour, I don't know yet - but you know my theory, and I like a challenge / risk.
So here are the isaiah quotes I could find, ordered by Isaiah:

Code: Select all

Romans 9:29 As Sodom and Gomorrah 	Isaiah 1:9
John 12:39 Closed eyes and ears 	Isaiah 6:10
Matthew 13:14 Closed eyes and ears 	Isaiah 6:9
Mark 4:12 Closed eyes and ears 		Isaiah 6:9
Luke 8:10 Closed eyes and ears 		Isaiah 6:9
Acts 28:25 Closed eyes and ears 	Isaiah 6:9
Matthew 1:23 Virgin with child 		Isaiah 7:14
1Peter 3:14 Do not be in fear 		Isaiah 8:12
Romans 9:33 Stone of stumbling 		Isaiah 8:14
1Peter 2:8 Stone of stumbling 		Isaiah 8:14
Hebrews 2:13 The children God has given me Isaiah 8:17­18
Matthew 4:15 A light in darkness 	Isaiah 9:1
Romans 9:27 Remnant shall be saved 	Isaiah 10:22
Romans 15:12 The Root of Jesse 	Isaiah 11:10
Ephesians 6:14­17 Belt, breastplate, helmet 	Isaiah 11:5, 59:17
1Corinthians 15:32 Tomorrow we may die 	Isaiah 22:13
Revelation 3:7 The key of David 	Isaiah 22:22
1Corinthians 15:54 Death swallowed up 	Isaiah 25:8
Romans 11:26 When I forgive their sins 	Isaiah 27:9
1Corinthians 14:21 Speak in strange tongues 	Isaiah 28:11
Romans 9:33, 10:11 Believers not disappointed 	Isaiah 28:16
1Peter 2:6 Precious corner stone 	Isaiah 28:16
Romans 11:8 A spirit of stupor 	Isaiah 29:10
Matthew 15:7 They worship in vain 	Isaiah 29:13
Mark 7:6 They worship in vain 	Isaiah 29:13
1Corinthians 1:19 The wisdom of the wise 	Isaiah 29:14
Romans 9:19­21 Potter and the clay 	Isaiah 29:16
Romans 11:34 The mind of the LORD 	Isaiah 40:13
Matthew 3:3 Voice in wilderness 	Isaiah 40:3
Mark 1:2 Voice in wilderness 	Isaiah 40:3
Luke 3:4 Voice in wilderness 	Isaiah 40:3
John 1:23 Voice in wilderness 	Isaiah 40:3
1Peter 1:25 God's word abides forever 	Isaiah 40:6
Matthew 12:18 Behold My Servant 	Isaiah 42:1
Matthew 12:21 Hope for Gentiles 	Isaiah 42:4
Romans 15:12 Hope for Gentiles 	Isaiah 42:4
Luke 2:32 Light to the Gentiles 	Isaiah 42:6, 49:6
Romans 14:11 Every knee shall bow 	Isaiah 45:23
Acts 13:47 A light for the Gentiles 	Isaiah 49:6
2Corinthians 6:2 Acceptable time, day of salvation 	Isaiah 49:8
2Corinthians 6:17 Come out from among them 	Isaiah 52:11
Romans 15:21 They shall understand 	Isaiah 52:15
Romans 2:24 Blasphemy among Gentiles 	Isaiah 52:5
Romans 10:15 How beautiful the feet 	Isaiah 52:7
John 12:38 Who has believed our report? 	Isaiah 53:1
Romans 10:16 Who has believed our report? 	Isaiah 53:1
Mark 15:28 Numbered with transgressors 	Isaiah 53:12
Luke 22:37 Numbered with transgressors 	Isaiah 53:12
Matthew 8:17 Carried our diseases 	Isaiah 53:4
1Peter 2:24 By his stripes you were healed 	Isaiah 53:5
Acts 8:32 A lamb to the slaughter 	Isaiah 53:7
1Peter 2:22 He committed no sin 	Isaiah 53:9
Galatians 4:27 Rejoice barren woman 	Isaiah 54:1
John 6:45 All be taught of God 	Isaiah 54:13
Acts 13:34 The blessings of David 	Isaiah 55:3
Matthew 21:13 A house of prayer 	Isaiah 56:7
Mark 11:17 A house of prayer 	Isaiah 56:7
Luke 19:46 A house of prayer 	Isaiah 56:7
Romans 11:26 Deliverer from Zion 	Isaiah 59:20
Romans 3:15­17 Feet swift to shed blood 	Isaiah 59:7­8
Luke 4:17 He anointed me to preach 	Isaiah 61:1
1Corinthians 2:9 Eye has not seen 	Isaiah 64:4
Romans 10:20 Found by those who sought me not 	Isaiah 65:1
Romans 10:21 Disobedient and obstinate people 	Isaiah 65:2
Acts 7:48 Heaven is my throne 	Isaiah 66:1
Mark 9:48 Fire is not quenched 	Isaiah 66:24

I'm tired of formatting on this crappy forum, sorry.
Let's tick off those boxes with https://chesterbeatty.ie/assets/uploads ... VI-Opt.pdf in hand:

Acts 13:34 The blessings of David Isaiah 55:3
Hebrews 2:13 The children God has given me Isaiah 8:17­18
Luke 19:46 A house of prayer Isaiah 56:7
Luke 2:32 Light to the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6, 49:6
Mark 11:17 A house of prayer Isaiah 56:7
Matthew 12:18 Behold My Servant Isaiah 42:1
Matthew 21:13 A house of prayer Isaiah 56:7
Romans 11:26 Deliverer from Zion Isaiah 59:20
Romans 15:12 The Root of Jesse Isaiah 11:10
Romans 3:15­17 Feet swift to shed blood Isaiah 59:7­8

Not much, but 10 is a good enough sample. LXX is Swete's 1930

1. Hebrews 2:13 The children God has given me Isaiah 8:17­18

BLB: And again: "I will be trusting in Him." And again: "Behold, I and the children whom God has given Me."

OT (BSB):

Isaiah 8:17 I will wait for the LORD, who is hiding His face from the house of Jacob. I will put my trust in Him.
18 Here am I, and the children the LORD has given me as signs and symbols in Israel from the LORD of Hosts, who dwells on Mount Zion.

Sefaria:

8:17 So I will wait for the LORD, who is hiding His face from the House of Jacob, and I will trust in Him.
18 Here stand I and the children the LORD has given me as signs and portents in Israel from the LORD of Hosts, who dwells on Mount Zion.

Verbatim enough, and we could end this particular exercise right here really

LXX Isaiah 8:17 καὶ ἐρεῖ Μενῶ τὸν θεὸν τὸν ἀποστρέψαντα τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ τοῦ οἴκου Ἰακώβ, καὶ πεποιθὼς ἔσομαι ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ. 18 ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ καὶ τὰ παιδία ἅ μοι ἔδωκεν ὁ θεός. καὶ ἔσται σημεῖα καὶ τέρατα ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ Ἰσραὴλ παρὰ Κυρίου σαβαώθ, ὃς κατοικεῖ ἐν τῷ ὄρει Σειών.

CB:

οἴκ]ῳ Ἰσραὴ[λ
κα]τοικεῖ ἐν τ[ῷ

Verbatim, for the small parts that we have. Next:

2. Romans 15:12 The Root of Jesse Isaiah 11:10

BLB: And again, Isaiah says: "There will be the root of Jesse, and the One arising to rule over the Gentiles; in Him the Gentiles will hope."

OT (BSB):

On that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples. The nations will seek Him, and His place of rest will be glorious.

Sefaria:

In that day, The stock of Jesse that has remained standing Shall become a standard to peoples—Nations shall seek his counsel And his abode shall be honored.

Slightly interesting, as Romans seems to disagree against both MT and LXX

LXX Isaiah καὶ ἔσται ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ ἡ ῥίζα τοῦ Ἰεσσαὶ καὶ ὁ ἀνιστάμενος ἄρχειν ἐθνῶν, ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ ἔθνη ἐλπιοῦσιν. καὶ ἔσται ἡ ἀνάπαυσις αὐτοῦ τιμή.

CB:

ἄρχειν ἐθνῶ]ν, ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ ἔθνη
ἐλπιοῦσιν. κ]αὶ ἔσται ἡ ἀνάπαυ
σις αὐτοῦ τ]Eιμή.

There is an epsilon in the last word, represented by E. Other than that, awfully little to go on

Interlinear BLB:

12 Καὶ (And) πάλιν (again), Ἠσαΐας (Isaiah) λέγει (says): “Ἔσται (There will be) ἡ (the) ῥίζα (root) τοῦ (-) Ἰεσσαί (of Jesse), καὶ (and) ὁ (the One) ἀνιστάμενος (arising) ἄρχειν (to rule over) ἐθνῶν (Gentiles); ἐπ’ (in) αὐτῷ (Him) ἔθνη (the Gentiles) ἐλπιοῦσιν (will hope).”

Wow. The NT is verbatim with the LXX. I need a much better OT

3. Matthew 12:18 Behold My Servant Isaiah 42:1

BLB: "Behold My servant, whom I have chosen, My beloved, in whom My soul has found delight. I will put My Spirit upon Him, and He will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.

OT (BSB):

“Here is My Servant, whom I uphold, My Chosen One, in whom My soul delights. I will put My Spirit on Him, and He will bring justice to the nations.

Sefaria:

This is My servant, whom I uphold, My chosen one, in whom I delight. I have put My spirit upon him, He shall teach the true way to the nations.

The tenses are interesting, but necessary for the "prophecy fulfilment" of course. The MT has already put the Spirit upon him, which is in the futurum for the Christians. Matthew uses the Perfect for the finding delight, it is Present in both other texts. The 'beloved' is a minor sneak-in by Matthew

LXX Isaiah Ἰακὼβ ὁ παῖς μου, ἀντιλήμψομαι αὐτοῦ· Ἰσραὴλ ὁ ἐκλεκτός μου, προσεδέξατο αὐτὸν ἡ ψυχή μου· ἔδωκα τὸ πνεῦμά μου ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν, κρίσιν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ἐξοίσει

That is completely different from what the English says! What is the correct translation of that?!

Iakob the child of-me, I-shall-take-hold-of-him. Israel the chosen of-me, favourably-received him the soul of-me. I-put (aor ind act 1st sg) the spirit of-me upon him, judgment to-the peoples he-will-bring

Now it gets exciting, why is the LXX completely different from both NT and MT?! This obviously and evidently is not a very nice source for the NT (LOL), but why is it so different from its source if it doesn't serve that purpose?

CB:

Ἰακὼβ ὁ [π]α[ῖς μου, ἀν
τιλήμψομα[ι] αὐτ[οῦ· Ἰσρα
ὴλ' ὁ ἐGλεκτός μου, [προσε
δέξατο αὐτὸν ἡ ψυ[χή
μου· ἔδωκα τὸ πνε[ῦμά
μου ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν, κρίσι[ν τοῖς
ἔθνεσιν ἐξοίσει

A G for the gamma instead of the kappa, other than that this is verbatim - and completely not in line with the MT, yet neither the NT. And my theory comes to a screeching halt here. But let's go on, and let's do note that we have here, with the dating provided as early 3rd CE, a true Septuagint (in the sense that it deviates from the MT), with the Christian scribal signs, as the apostrophe right here also attests. Yet this is not a really true LXX in my definition, as it needs to deviate from the Hebrew IN ORDER TO back up the fake prophecies of the NT. So let's continue, still 7 verses to go. Or shall I do another BLB?

18 “Ἰδοὺ (Behold) ὁ (the) παῖς (servant) μου (of Me), ὃν (whom) ᾑρέτισα (I have chosen), ὁ (the) ἀγαπητός (beloved) μου (of Me), ‹εἰς› (in) ὃν (whom) εὐδόκησεν (has found delight) ἡ (the) ψυχή (soul) μου (of Me). θήσω (I will put) τὸ (the) Πνεῦμά (Spirit) μου (of Me) ἐπ’ (upon) αὐτόν (Him), καὶ (and) κρίσιν (justice) τοῖς (to the) ἔθνεσιν (Gentiles) ἀπαγγελεῖ (He will proclaim).

Certainly not verbatim with this LXX...

4. Luke 2:32 Light to the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6, 49:6

BLB: a light for revelation of the Gentiles, and glory of Your people Israel."

OT (BSB): 42:6 “I, the LORD, have called you for a righteous purpose, and I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and appoint you to be a covenant for the people and a light to the nations,
49:6 He says: “It is not enough for You to be My Servant, to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the protected ones of Israel. I will also make You a light for the nations, to bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.”

Sefaria:

42:6 I the LORD, in My grace, have summoned you, And I have grasped you by the hand. I created you, and appointed you A covenants of people, a light of nations
49:6 For He has said: “It is too little that you should be My servant In that I raise up the tribes of Jacob And restore the survivors of Israel: I will also make you a light of nations, That My salvation may reach the ends of the earth.”

Again we see the past tense in the MT, even the Perfect, and the OT sneakily changing that into futurum. Do also note that Gawd himself will do the tribe thing, not the addressee. And making him into a light of nations will already implement salvation, it is not an explicit and extra instruction

LXX Isaiah 42:6 ἐγὼ Κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἐκάλεσά σε ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ, καὶ κρατήσω τῆς χειρός σου καὶ ἐνισχύσω σε, καὶ ἔδωκά σε εἰς διαθήκην γένους

The LXX adds Gawd to the Lawd, but this is extremely different from the OT, and "the light of nations" is entirely absent.

LXX Isaiah 49:6 καὶ εἶπέν μοι Μέγα σοί ἐστιν τοῦ κληθῆναί σε παῖδά μου, τοῦ στῆσαι τὰς φυλὰς Ἰακὼβ καὶ τὴν διασπορὰν τοῦ Ἰσραὴλ ἐπιστρέψαι· ἰδοὺ δέδωκά σε εἰς διαθήκην γένους, εἰς φῶς ἐθνῶν, τοῦ εἶναί σε εἰς σωτηρίαν ἕως ἐσχάτου τῆς γῆς.

Ah, there we have it! εἰς φῶς ἐθνῶν, into light of-nations. Bummer, I had marked Isa 42 for this, let's hope that CB also has the 49 that we now suddenly need

CB:

[ἐγὼ Κς
ὁ θς ἐ]κάλεσά σε ἐ[ν δικαιο
σύνῃ], καὶ [κ]ρατήσω τ[ῆς χειρός σου
καὶ] ἐνισχύσω σε, {καὶ} ἔδω[κά
σε] εἰς διαθήκην γένου[ς εἰς
φῶς ἐ]θνῶν

Wait w00t?! Now I have to start digging into Swete and where it comes from - but this evidently is an LXX that disagrees with Swete. We also have the addition of Gawd, as well as nomina sacra and other scribal signs. The LXX adds righteousness, and evidently uses the MT as a scratchpad with among others continuously changing past tenses into futurum - no good use for prophecies that lie in the past, or is it?

BLB again:

φῶς (a light) εἰς (for) ἀποκάλυψιν (revelation) ἐθνῶν (of the Gentiles), καὶ (and) δόξαν (glory) λαοῦ (of the people) σου (of You), Ἰσραήλ (Israel).”

Rubbish. And ἀποκάλυψις naturally means uncovering, not revelation

5. Acts 13:34 The blessings of David Isaiah 55:3

BLB: And that He raised Him out from the dead, no more being about to return to decay, He spoke thus: 'I will give to you the holy and sure blessings of David.'

OT (BSB):

Incline your ear and come to Me; listen, so that your soul may live. I will make with you an everlasting covenant—My loving devotion promised to David.

Sefaria:

Incline your ear and come to Me; Hearken, and you shall be revived. And I will make with you an everlasting covenant, The enduring loyalty promised to David.

Some not so minor differences again, but the NT agrees with neither really

LXX Isaiah

προσέχετε τοῖς ὠσὶν ὑμῶν καὶ ἐπακολουθήσατε ταῖς ὁδοῖς μου· εἰσακούσατέ μου, καὶ ζήσεται ἐν ἀγαθοῖς ἡ ψυχὴ ὑμῶν, καὶ διαθήσομαι ὑμῖν διαθήκην αἰώνιον, τὰ ὅσια Δαυεὶδ τὰ πιστά.

Completely different again:

Take-heed with-the ears of-you, and follow-after the ways of-me. Listen to-me, and will-live in good-things the soul of-you, and I-will-ordain to-you covenant eternal, the sacred-things of-David, the trustworthy-ones.

None of this has any bearing on Acts, save for the name David

CB:

κούσατέ μου, καὶ ζήσεται ἐ
ν ἀγαθοῖς ἡ ψυχὴ ὑμῶν, καὶ
διαθήσομαι Uμῖν διαθή
κην αἰώνιον, τὰ ὅσια ΔαυIδ
τὰ πιστά.

A beautiful diaeresis on the U and the I there, and perfectly verbatim to the LXX. Any takeaways? We're halfway and I feel utterly lost, we don't just have two but four vastly different sources here

BLB

34 Ὅτι (That) δὲ (then) ἀνέστησεν (He raised) αὐτὸν (Him) ἐκ (out from) νεκρῶν (the dead), μηκέτι (no more) μέλλοντα (being about) ὑποστρέφειν (to return) εἰς (to) διαφθοράν (decay), οὕτως (thus) εἴρηκεν (He spoke) ὅτι (-): ‘Δώσω (I will give) ὑμῖν (to you) τὰ (the) ὅσια (holy blessings) Δαυὶδ (of David), τὰ (the) πιστά (sure blessings).’b

NT is verbatim with the LXX for the handful of words that we have, and neither OT nor MT has anything to do with them

6. Luke 19:46 A house of prayer Isaiah 56:7
Likewise for Mark 11:17 and Matthew 21:13. Let's do it slightly different and put the NT at the end shall we?

OT (BSB):

I will bring them to My holy mountain and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on My altar, for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Sefaria:

I will bring them to My sacred mount And let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices Shall be welcome on My altar; For My House shall be called A house of prayer for all peoples.”

Thank gawdness, we have a match

LXX Isaiah

εἰσάξω αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄρος τὸ ἅγιόν μου, καὶ εὐφρανῶ αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ τῆς προσευχῆς μου· τὰ ὁλοκαυτώματα αὐτῶν καὶ αἱ θυσίαι αὐτῶν ἔσονται δεκταὶ ἐπὶ τὸ θυσιαστήριόν μου. ὁ γάρ οἶκός μου οἶκος προσευχῆς κληθήσεται πᾶσιν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν,

I-will-bring them to the mountain the holy of-me, and I-will-gladden them in the house of prayer of-me. The whole-burnt-offerings of-them and the sacrifices of-them will-be accepted upon the altar of-me. The indeed house of-me house of prayer will-be-called for-all the peoples

CB:

εἰσάξω αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄρος
τὸ ἅγιόν μου, καὶ εὐφρανῶ αὐτοὺς
ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ τῆς προσευχῆς μου·
τὰ [ὁλοκ]αυτώματα αὐτῶν κ[αὶ α]ἱ
θυσία[ι αὐτῶν ἔσονται] δεκτα[ὶ ἐπὶ
τὸU θυσι[αστήριόν μου. ὁ γάρ οἶκός
μου οἶκος π[ροσευχῆς

An extra upsilon there in the U, odd. But blindingly verbatim, for the small set of words present

BLB:

Mark: And He began teaching, and was saying to them, "Has it not been written: 'My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations'? But you have made it 'a den of robbers.'"

“Οὐ (Not) γέγραπται (has it been written) ὅτι (-): ‘Ὁ (The) οἶκός (house) μου (of Me) οἶκος (a house) προσευχῆς (of prayer) κληθήσεται (will be called) πᾶσιν (for all) τοῖς (the) ἔθνεσιν (nations)’

Luke: saying to them, "It has been written: 'And My house will be a house of prayer.' But you have made it 'a den of robbers.'"

“Γέγραπται (It has been written): ‘Καὶ (And) ἔσται (will be) ὁ (the) οἶκός (house) μου (of Me) οἶκος (a house) προσευχῆς (of prayer).’

Matthew: And He says to them, "It has been written: 'My house will be called a house of prayer.' But you have made it 'a den of robbers.'"

‘Ὁ (The) οἶκός (house) μου (of Me) οἶκος (a house) προσευχῆς (of prayer) κληθήσεται (will be called).’

Well, Mark has the full quote, yet it's all nicely verbatim

7. Romans 3:15­-17 Feet swift to shed blood Isaiah 59:7­8

BLB: 15 their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery are in their paths;
17 and the way of peace they have not known.

OT (BSB):

7 Their feet run to evil; they are swift to shed innocent blood. Their thoughts are sinful thoughts; ruin and destruction lie in their wake.
8 The way of peace they have not known, and there is no justice in their tracks. They have turned them into crooked paths; no one who treads on them will know peace.

Sefaria:

7 Their feet run after evil, They hasten to shed the blood of the innocent. Their plans are plans of mischief, Destructiveness and injury are on their roads.
8 They do not care for the way of integrity, There is no justice on their paths. They make their courses crooked, No one who walks in them cares for integrity.

Slight yet not so minor differences, and Romans 16 first half agrees with OT, yet second agrees with MT. I wonder about 'integrity' which gets translated with 'peace' twice: the Hebrew says šālôm so we have a thingy here with Sefaria! Isn't there anything that is to be trusted in this field...

LXX Isaiah

7 οἱ δὲ πόδες αὐτῶν ἐπὶ πονηρίαν τρέχουσιν, ταχινοὶ ἐκχέαι αἷμα, καὶ οἱ διαλογισμοὶ αὐτῶν ἀπὸ φόνων· σύντριμμα καὶ ταλαιπωρία ἐν ταῖς ὁδοῖς αὐτῶν,
8 καὶ ὁδὸν εἰρήνης οὐκ οἴδασιν, καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν κρίσις ἐν ταῖς ὁδοῖς αὐτῶν· αἱ γὰρ τρίβοι αὐτῶν διεστραμμέναι ἃς διοδεύουσιν, καὶ οὐκ οἴδασιν εἰρήνην.

The however feet of-them unto wickedness run, quick pouring-out blood, and the thoughts of-them about murder. Destruction and misery in their paths,
8 and way of-peace not they-behold, and not is equity in the paths of-them. The indeed roads of-them perverted which they-travel-through, and not they-behold peace.

CB:

πόδες αὐτῶν ἐπὶ πο]νηρίαν
τρέχουσιν, ταχινοὶ] ἐκχέαι αἷμα,
καὶ οἱ διαλογισμοὶ α]ὐτῶν DIA
LOGISMOI ἀπὸ] φόνων· σύν_
τριμμα καὶ] ταλαιπωρία ἐν
ταῖς ὁδοῖς α]ὐτῶν, καὶ ὁδὸν
εἰρήνης οὐ]κ οἴδασιν, καὶ οὐκ ἔσ
τιν κρίσις ἐν τ]αῖς ὁδοῖς αὐτῶ_
αἱ γὰρ τρίβοι αὐ]τῶν διεστραμ
μέναι ἃς διοδ]εύουσιν, καὶ οὐ
κ οἴδασιν εἰρήν]ην.

The capitals are really there, the same word gets inserted again, shared by 3 other MSS. Not a useful source this time, I need verbatim agreement, not paraphrasing

BLB

15 ὀξεῖς (swift are) οἱ (the) πόδες (feet) αὐτῶν (of them) ἐκχέαι (to shed) αἷμα (blood); 16 σύντριμμα (ruin) καὶ (and) ταλαιπωρία (misery) ἐν (are in) ταῖς (the) ὁδοῖς (paths) αὐτῶν (of them); 17 καὶ (and) ὁδὸν (the way) εἰρήνης (of peace) οὐκ (not) ἔγνωσαν (they have known).

Not too verbatim, even with the few words that match

8. Romans 11:26 Deliverer from Zion Isaiah 59:20

BLB: And so all Israel will be saved, as it has been written: “The One Delivering will come out of Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.

OT (BSB):

“The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who turn from transgression

Sefaria:

He shall come as redeemer to Zion, To those in Jacob who turn back from sin — declares the LORD.

LXX Isaiah

καὶ ἥξει ἕνεκεν Σειὼν ὁ ῥυόμενος καὶ ἀποστρέψει ἀσεβείας ἀπὸ Ἰακώβ.

And will-come on-account-of Zion the rescuing-one and he-will-turn impieties from Jacob

CB:

καὶ ἥ]ξει ἕνεκεν
Σειὼν ὁ ῥυ[όμενος] καὶ ἀποστρέ
ψει ἀσεβ[είας ... ἀπὸ Ἰακώβ.

BLB

26 καὶ (and) οὕτως (so) πᾶς (all) Ἰσραὴλ (Israel) σωθήσεται (will be saved), καθὼς (as) γέγραπται (it has been written): “Ἥξει (Will come) ἐκ (out of) Σιὼν (Zion) ὁ (the One) Ῥυόμενος (Delivering), ἀποστρέψει (He will remove) ἀσεβείας (ungodliness) ἀπὸ (from) Ἰακώβ (Jacob).

Blindingly verbatim with the LXX, and completely at odds with the OT and MT

Well, that's it. How thoroughly disappointing and confusing. Where I expected an NT and LXX to agree against the MT, I found an LXX and MT that happily agree against the NT some of the time, and an OT that has little to nothing to do with either three at frequent points.
Needless to say, the OT is irrelevant and all that matters in the end is the Greek of the NT versus that of the LXX

I am unsure about the takeaway here really - where do we get the dumb OT from? A revelation from Gawd, perhaps?!
Yet the Chester Beatty had proven its worth: what we have here is a very first Christian LXX, at odds with the MT, and verbatim with the NT - in about les than half of the cases, granted.
Still, this demonstrates that there is a connection between NT and LXX without there being one between either of those with the MT. And if we take the happy dating of this MS seriously, we find ourselves in 225-250 CE and the making of the NT as well as the LXX: verbatim agreement between the two while disagreeing against the MT

[GakuseiDon]

Nice work, but: what's "the MT"?

[mlinssen]

Masoretic Text - which is an anachronism in this case but I simply have no idea what name to use other than Tanakh, which neither is helpful. Hebrew Bible is no option, etc

[mlinssen]

Well, turns out that the OT is just the MT, basically - and the Septuagint indeed very different from both. How does that work for Christians though when they look up an NT verse in the OT and find out that it says something completely different?

Assuming that they do that, of course, which is pretty naive of me, I guess.
So I'll just fix a quick summary of the OP, and tick off the boxes for verbatim agreement between NT and LXX, and ignore the OT altogether

And yes, apologies for using that ugly abbreviation of OT, but I have no other choice in this matter - although I usually avoid it altogether

[mlinssen]

This is where the OP took its material from:

Let's tick off those boxes with https://chesterbeatty.ie/assets/uploads ... VI-Opt.pdf in hand:

Acts 13:34 The blessings of David Isaiah 55:3
Hebrews 2:13 The children God has given me Isaiah 8:17­18
Luke 19:46 A house of prayer Isaiah 56:7
Luke 2:32 Light to the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6, 49:6
Mark 11:17 A house of prayer Isaiah 56:7
Matthew 12:18 Behold My Servant Isaiah 42:1
Matthew 21:13 A house of prayer Isaiah 56:7
Romans 11:26 Deliverer from Zion Isaiah 59:20
Romans 15:12 The Root of Jesse Isaiah 11:10
Romans 3:15­17 Feet swift to shed blood Isaiah 59:7­8

Current exercise: put NT and LXX next to eachother, compre with Sefaria alone. Period

1. Hebrews 2:13 The children God has given me Isaiah 8:17­18

NT (BLB) Καὶ (And) πάλιν (again): “Ἐγὼ (I) ἔσομαι (will be) πεποιθὼς (trusting) ἐπ’ (in) αὐτῷ (Him).” Καὶ (And) πάλιν (again): “Ἰδοὺ (Behold), ἐγὼ (I) καὶ (and) τὰ (the) παιδία (children) ἅ (whom) μοι (to Me) ἔδωκεν (has given) ὁ (-) Θεός (God).”

LXX Isaiah 8:17 καὶ ἐρεῖ Μενῶ τὸν θεὸν τὸν ἀποστρέψαντα τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ τοῦ οἴκου Ἰακώβ, καὶ πεποιθὼς ἔσομαι ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ. 18 ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ καὶ τὰ παιδία ἅ μοι ἔδωκεν ὁ θεός. καὶ ἔσται σημεῖα καὶ τέρατα ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ Ἰσραὴλ παρὰ Κυρίου σαβαώθ, ὃς κατοικεῖ ἐν τῷ ὄρει Σειών.

CB:

οἴκ]ῳ Ἰσραὴ[λ
κα]τοικεῖ ἐν τ[ῷ[/box]

Sefaria:

8:17 So I will wait for the LORD, who is hiding His face from the House of Jacob, and I will trust in Him.
18 Here stand I and the children the LORD has given me as signs and portents in Israel from the LORD of Hosts, who dwells on Mount Zion.

Too little to go on

2. Romans 15:12 The Root of Jesse Isaiah 11:10

NT (BLB) Καὶ (And) πάλιν (again), Ἠσαΐας (Isaiah) λέγει (says): “Ἔσται (There will be) ἡ (the) ῥίζα (root) τοῦ (-) Ἰεσσαί (of Jesse), καὶ (and) ὁ (the One) ἀνιστάμενος (arising) ἄρχειν (to rule over) ἐθνῶν (Gentiles); ἐπ’ (in) αὐτῷ (Him) ἔθνη (the Gentiles) ἐλπιοῦσιν (will hope).”

LXX Isaiah καὶ ἔσται ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ ἡ ῥίζα τοῦ Ἰεσσαὶ καὶ ὁ ἀνιστάμενος ἄρχειν ἐθνῶν, ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ ἔθνη ἐλπιοῦσιν. καὶ ἔσται ἡ ἀνάπαυσις αὐτοῦ τιμή.

CB:

ἄρχειν ἐθνῶ]ν, ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ ἔθνη
ἐλπιοῦσιν. κ]αὶ ἔσται ἡ ἀνάπαυ
σις αὐτοῦ τ]Eιμή.

Sefaria:

In that day, The stock of Jesse that has remained standing Shall become a standard to peoples—Nations shall seek his counsel And his abode shall be honored.

1 very big point for NT-LXX agreement against the Hebrew; 1 out of 1, 0 for the Hebrew. CB agrees fully with LXX

3. Matthew 12:18 Behold My Servant Isaiah 42:1

NT (BLB): “Ἰδοὺ (Behold) ὁ (the) παῖς (servant) μου (of Me), ὃν (whom) ᾑρέτισα (I have chosen), ὁ (the) ἀγαπητός (beloved) μου (of Me), ‹εἰς› (in) ὃν (whom) εὐδόκησεν (has found delight) ἡ (the) ψυχή (soul) μου (of Me). θήσω (I will put) τὸ (the) Πνεῦμά (Spirit) μου (of Me) ἐπ’ (upon) αὐτόν (Him), καὶ (and) κρίσιν (justice) τοῖς (to the) ἔθνεσιν (Gentiles) ἀπαγγελεῖ (He will proclaim).

LXX Isaiah Ἰακὼβ ὁ παῖς μου, ἀντιλήμψομαι αὐτοῦ· Ἰσραὴλ ὁ ἐκλεκτός μου, προσεδέξατο αὐτὸν ἡ ψυχή μου· ἔδωκα τὸ πνεῦμά μου ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν, κρίσιν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ἐξοίσει
Iakob the child of-me, I-shall-take-hold-of-him. Israel the chosen of-me, favourably-received him the soul of-me. I-put (aor ind act 1st sg) the spirit of-me upon him, judgment to-the peoples he-will-bring

CB:

Ἰακὼβ ὁ [π]α[ῖς μου, ἀν
τιλήμψομα[ι] αὐτ[οῦ· Ἰσρα
ὴλ' ὁ ἐGλεκτός μου, [προσε
δέξατο αὐτὸν ἡ ψυ[χή
μου· ἔδωκα τὸ πνε[ῦμά
μου ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν, κρίσι[ν τοῖς
ἔθνεσιν ἐξοίσει

Sefaria:

This is My servant, whom I uphold, My chosen one, in whom I delight. I have put My spirit upon him, He shall teach the true way to the nations.

CB is verbatim with the LXX, but the NT only partially verbatim with the LXX. 1.5 out of 2 points, 0 again for the Hebrew that has something completely different

4. Luke 2:32 Light to the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6, 49:6

NT (BLB): φῶς (a light) εἰς (for) ἀποκάλυψιν (revelation) ἐθνῶν (of the Gentiles), καὶ (and) δόξαν (glory) λαοῦ (of the people) σου (of You), Ἰσραήλ (Israel).”

LXX Isaiah 42:6 ἐγὼ Κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἐκάλεσά σε ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ, καὶ κρατήσω τῆς χειρός σου καὶ ἐνισχύσω σε, καὶ ἔδωκά σε εἰς διαθήκην γένους
LXX Isaiah 49:6 καὶ εἶπέν μοι Μέγα σοί ἐστιν τοῦ κληθῆναί σε παῖδά μου, τοῦ στῆσαι τὰς φυλὰς Ἰακὼβ καὶ τὴν διασπορὰν τοῦ Ἰσραὴλ ἐπιστρέψαι· ἰδοὺ δέδωκά σε εἰς διαθήκην γένους, εἰς φῶς ἐθνῶν, τοῦ εἶναί σε εἰς σωτηρίαν ἕως ἐσχάτου τῆς γῆς.

CB:

[ἐγὼ Κς
ὁ θς ἐ]κάλεσά σε ἐ[ν δικαιο
σύνῃ], καὶ [κ]ρατήσω τ[ῆς χειρός σου
καὶ] ἐνισχύσω σε, {καὶ} ἔδω[κά
σε] εἰς διαθήκην γένου[ς εἰς
φῶς ἐ]θνῶν

Sefaria:

42:6 I the LORD, in My grace, have summoned you, And I have grasped you by the hand. I created you, and appointed you A covenants of people, a light of nations
49:6 For He has said: “It is too little that you should be My servant In that I raise up the tribes of Jacob And restore the survivors of Israel: I will also make you a light of nations, That My salvation may reach the ends of the earth.”

CB is verbatim with LXX 42:6, yet the NT hardly verbatim with any, as it's only two little words - and while those can be found verbatim in the LXX, it's awfully little really. Skipping it

5. Acts 13:34 The blessings of David Isaiah 55:3

NT (BLB):
34 Ὅτι (That) δὲ (then) ἀνέστησεν (He raised) αὐτὸν (Him) ἐκ (out from) νεκρῶν (the dead), μηκέτι (no more) μέλλοντα (being about) ὑποστρέφειν (to return) εἰς (to) διαφθοράν (decay), οὕτως (thus) εἴρηκεν (He spoke) ὅτι (-): ‘Δώσω (I will give) ὑμῖν (to you) τὰ (the) ὅσια (holy blessings) Δαυὶδ (of David), τὰ (the) πιστά (sure blessings).’b

LXX Isaiah

προσέχετε τοῖς ὠσὶν ὑμῶν καὶ ἐπακολουθήσατε ταῖς ὁδοῖς μου· εἰσακούσατέ μου, καὶ ζήσεται ἐν ἀγαθοῖς ἡ ψυχὴ ὑμῶν, καὶ διαθήσομαι ὑμῖν διαθήκην αἰώνιον, τὰ ὅσια Δαυεὶδ τὰ πιστά.
Take-heed with-the ears of-you, and follow-after the ways of-me. Listen to-me, and will-live in good-things the soul of-you, and I-will-ordain to-you covenant eternal, the sacred-things of-David, the trustworthy-ones.

CB:

κούσατέ μου, καὶ ζήσεται ἐ
ν ἀγαθοῖς ἡ ψυχὴ ὑμῶν, καὶ
διαθήσομαι Uμῖν διαθή
κην αἰώνιον, τὰ ὅσια ΔαυIδ
τὰ πιστά.

Sefaria:

Incline your ear and come to Me; Hearken, and you shall be revived. And I will make with you an everlasting covenant, The enduring loyalty promised to David.

Only a few words but another fat point: 2.5 out of 3 - and again a whopping 0 for the Hebrew

6. Luke 19:46 A house of prayer Isaiah 56:7
Likewise for Mark 11:17 and Matthew 21:13

NT (BLB):

Mark: “Οὐ (Not) γέγραπται (has it been written) ὅτι (-): ‘Ὁ (The) οἶκός (house) μου (of Me) οἶκος (a house) προσευχῆς (of prayer) κληθήσεται (will be called) πᾶσιν (for all) τοῖς (the) ἔθνεσιν (nations)’
Luke: “Γέγραπται (It has been written): ‘Καὶ (And) ἔσται (will be) ὁ (the) οἶκός (house) μου (of Me) οἶκος (a house) προσευχῆς (of prayer).’
Matthew: ‘Ὁ (The) οἶκός (house) μου (of Me) οἶκος (a house) προσευχῆς (of prayer) κληθήσεται (will be called).’

LXX Isaiah

εἰσάξω αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄρος τὸ ἅγιόν μου, καὶ εὐφρανῶ αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ τῆς προσευχῆς μου· τὰ ὁλοκαυτώματα αὐτῶν καὶ αἱ θυσίαι αὐτῶν ἔσονται δεκταὶ ἐπὶ τὸ θυσιαστήριόν μου. ὁ γάρ οἶκός μου οἶκος προσευχῆς κληθήσεται πᾶσιν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν,
I-will-bring them to the mountain the holy of-me, and I-will-gladden them in the house of prayer of-me. The whole-burnt-offerings of-them and the sacrifices of-them will-be accepted upon the altar of-me. The indeed house of-me house of prayer will-be-called for-all the peoples

CB:

εἰσάξω αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄρος
τὸ ἅγιόν μου, καὶ εὐφρανῶ αὐτοὺς
ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ τῆς προσευχῆς μου·
τὰ [ὁλοκ]αυτώματα αὐτῶν κ[αὶ α]ἱ
θυσία[ι αὐτῶν ἔσονται] δεκτα[ὶ ἐπὶ
τὸU θυσι[αστήριόν μου. ὁ γάρ οἶκός
μου οἶκος π[ροσευχῆς

Sefaria:

I will bring them to My sacred mount And let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices Shall be welcome on My altar; For My House shall be called A house of prayer for all peoples.”

3.5 out of 4, and they even agree with the MT - now that's a first! 1 for the Hebrew

7. Romans 3:15­-17 Feet swift to shed blood Isaiah 59:7­8

NT (BLB): 15 ὀξεῖς (swift are) οἱ (the) πόδες (feet) αὐτῶν (of them) ἐκχέαι (to shed) αἷμα (blood); 16 σύντριμμα (ruin) καὶ (and) ταλαιπωρία (misery) ἐν (are in) ταῖς (the) ὁδοῖς (paths) αὐτῶν (of them); 17 καὶ (and) ὁδὸν (the way) εἰρήνης (of peace) οὐκ (not) ἔγνωσαν (they have known).

LXX Isaiah

7 οἱ δὲ πόδες αὐτῶν ἐπὶ πονηρίαν τρέχουσιν, ταχινοὶ ἐκχέαι αἷμα, καὶ οἱ διαλογισμοὶ αὐτῶν ἀπὸ φόνων· σύντριμμα καὶ ταλαιπωρία ἐν ταῖς ὁδοῖς αὐτῶν,
8 καὶ ὁδὸν εἰρήνης οὐκ οἴδασιν, καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν κρίσις ἐν ταῖς ὁδοῖς αὐτῶν· αἱ γὰρ τρίβοι αὐτῶν διεστραμμέναι ἃς διοδεύουσιν, καὶ οὐκ οἴδασιν εἰρήνην.

The however feet of-them unto wickedness run, quick pouring-out blood, and the thoughts of-them about murder. Destruction and misery in their paths,
8 and way of-peace not they-behold, and not is equity in the paths of-them. The indeed roads of-them perverted which they-travel-through, and not they-behold peace.

CB:

πόδες αὐτῶν ἐπὶ πο]νηρίαν
τρέχουσιν, ταχινοὶ] ἐκχέαι αἷμα,
καὶ οἱ διαλογισμοὶ α]ὐτῶν DIA
LOGISMOI ἀπὸ] φόνων· σύν_
τριμμα καὶ] ταλαιπωρία ἐν
ταῖς ὁδοῖς α]ὐτῶν, καὶ ὁδὸν
εἰρήνης οὐ]κ οἴδασιν, καὶ οὐκ ἔσ
τιν κρίσις ἐν τ]αῖς ὁδοῖς αὐτῶ_
αἱ γὰρ τρίβοι αὐ]τῶν διεστραμ
μέναι ἃς διοδ]εύουσιν, καὶ οὐ
κ οἴδασιν εἰρήν]ην.

Sefaria:

7 Their feet run after evil, They hasten to shed the blood of the innocent. Their plans are plans of mischief, Destructiveness and injury are on their roads.
8 They do not care for the way of PEACE, There is no justice on their paths. They make their courses crooked, No one who walks in them cares for PEACE.

Verbatim enough, 4.5 out of 5, and another point for the Hebrew: 2

8. Romans 11:26 Deliverer from Zion Isaiah 59:20

NT (BLB): 26 καὶ (and) οὕτως (so) πᾶς (all) Ἰσραὴλ (Israel) σωθήσεται (will be saved), καθὼς (as) γέγραπται (it has been written): “Ἥξει (Will come) ἐκ (out of) Σιὼν (Zion) ὁ (the One) Ῥυόμενος (Delivering), ἀποστρέψει (He will remove) ἀσεβείας (ungodliness) ἀπὸ (from) Ἰακώβ (Jacob).

LXX Isaiah

καὶ ἥξει ἕνεκεν Σειὼν ὁ ῥυόμενος καὶ ἀποστρέψει ἀσεβείας ἀπὸ Ἰακώβ.
And will-come on-account-of Zion the rescuing-one and he-will-turn impieties from Jacob

CB:

καὶ ἥ]ξει ἕνεκεν
Σειὼν ὁ ῥυ[όμενος] καὶ ἀποστρέ
ψει ἀσεβ[είας ... ἀπὸ Ἰακώβ.

Sefaria:

He shall come as redeemer to Zion, To those in Jacob who turn back from sin — declares the LORD.

Blindingly verbatim with the LXX, and completely at odds with the OT and MT

5.5 out of 6, and how often did these agree with the Hebrew? Only 2 times, but none of those was an agreement against either the NT or the LXX

So we find very serious mistranslations in the LXX, and the NT agreeing verbatim to those - that can only mean two things, of course:
1. The NT was written with the LXX in mind, and all of the matching text (but most importantly, the surrounding context) in the NT made up;
2. The LXX was written with the NT in mind, and all of the matching text (but most importantly, the surrounding context) in the LXX made up

Yet there is one predicament there, namely that the LXX at least has to resemble the Hebrew in some way - so it is possible that the NT got written, and then the LXX adjusted to it? Have we found another Isaiah, in Greek, that predates the Chester beatty? Perhaps that is for another exercise.
But naturally it is absolutely and entirely utterly impossible to have the NT and LXX agrees this close, it is obscene really, even LukeMatthew would be ashamed of this level of agreement. One thing is for sure: in Greek, all of this is a perfect match. And ONLY in Greek

[mlinssen]

The Christians were puzzled about the Coptic IS/IHS and XS/XRS, and tried to put those to use - as an experiment.
The first verse that attests to this is Numbers 26:65, the plate to which is XV, which is found on page 27 of the PDF

https://chesterbeatty.ie/assets/uploads ... VI-Opt.pdf - Fasciculus VI Numbers and Deuteronomy, plates

One can check the transcription first if one would like to do so, which is in on folio 42 verso, page 17 of

https://chesterbeatty.ie/assets/uploads ... -V-Opt.pdf - Fasciculus V Numbers and Deuteronomy, text

65 ὅτι εἶπεν Κύριος αὐτῷ Θανάτῳ ἀποθανοῦνται ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ· καὶ οὐ κατελείφθη ἐξ αὐτῶν οὐδὲ εἷς, πλὴν Χαλὲβ υἱὸς Ἰεφοννὴ καὶ Ἰησοῦς ὁ τοῦ Ναυή

It says "son of", not "he of" as in the version from Biblehub here (can't copy the Greek, the font is rubbish):

καὶ Ἰης υἱὸς Ναυή

The next verse is Numbers 32:12, which is on page 29 of the transcription and plate 28, page 40 of the PDF

And what we see is that it now suddenly says IS instead of IHS, which makes this Greek text unique. Is this an experiment? When looking at the entire page, nomina sacra suddenly pop up all over the place: IHL for Israel, MWUSHS for Moses with a superlinear covering the first 3 letters, KS for Kurios and KU and KW likewise, and what is blatantly evident here is that some zealous scribe in the 2nd / 3rd CE took a Tanakh section and drooled nomina sacra all over it, and early ones as well: what's more, numerals have superlinears as well, e.g. Number 29:13 on transcription page 22.
This clearly is a try-out, an interpretation, and even though this content is pre-NT, the text isn't, it's 2nd/3rd CE, and it has clearly been expanded as a result of the first scribal brain farts



The Intro to the text:

The papyrus is, as a rule, correctly written. Omitted lines (as already
noted) are occasionally inserted in the upper or lower margin, with marks of
omission indicating their proper place in the column. Letters wrongly written
are marked by a dot above them. Paragraphi, or intervals to mark the com ­
mencement of a paragraph, are occasionally employed, but not regularly. The
common filling-mark (>) is used to fill up short lines. The νῦ ἐφελκυστικόν is
generally omitted, and iota adscript is very rarely written. There are two
cases of unusual division of words at the ends of lines (folio 10 col. 2, line 32
σκην|ην folio 103, col. I, line 4 διαϐ|αίνετε). The diaeresis is usual over initial i or
u, and an apostrophe frequently follows proper names of non-Greek formation
ending with a consonant (e.g. ῶγ, γαλααδ’ ).
At the end of a line final v is sometimes represented by a stroke above the
preceding vowel.

Chrestian-Christian scribal habits, yet these are reluctant ones. Throughout the Greek tradition there is only IS and XS, never IHS or XRS - the latter two are entirely reserved for the Latin tradition, and the Coptic combines all 4

The point of special interest about this manuscript is its very early date. The
evidence of this is purely palaeographical, but does not appear to admit of
doubt. It is written in a rather small, upright hand, square in build (i.e.
with height and width of letters about equal), with well-rounded curves, and
light, flowing strokes. It is a type of hand easily recognizable as belonging to
what is known as the Roman period of papyrus palaeography. It is akin to,
but probably rather later than, the long Hyperides papyrus in the British
Museum, which is assigned on fairly good evidence to the end of the first
century after Christ. It does not seem possible to date it later than the second
century, or even, in my opinion, after the middle of that century. This also
is the opinion of Mr. H. I. Bell and Prof. Schubart, and is confirmed by
Prof. Wilcken {Archiv fur Papyrusforschung, xi. 113), who speaks of the reign
of Hadrian; but it should be noted that Prof. Hunt, while thinking it may
well be of the second century, added that this type of hand continued into the
third century, and that therefore ‘ late 2nd or early 3rd ’ would be a cautious
date for it. I think this dating is almost certainly over-cautious.

Naturally! Let's date everything that suits us as early as possible, why don't we. So we have 2nd/3rd CE on paleographical grounds, and as you can see only 1 MS is named as a baseline: this is how Christian bias works.
Alas no Deu 18:15-19, nor 21:23. Neither Numbers 9:12, 21:9 or 24:17

The interesting takeaway here is the experiment with the writing and what obviously was spoken: yet it is also interesting that Joshua is chosen, and completely abandoned afterwards. Let's see a page shall we?

ScribalSigns_ChesterBeatty-V.png (611.49 KiB) Viewed 864 times

Observe the left and right margins:
1. Israel abbreviated with superlinear, yet not written in full with an apostrophe at the end. Bezae has no abbreviations here yet 35 occurrences in full with an umlaut on the i, and 3 eisrael. Sinaiticus on the contrary DOES have ιηλʼ with a superlinear AND an apostrophe at the end. P45 has it in full, etc
2. Kurios is abbreviated and contains a superlinear
3. There is a IHN, accusative of IHS
4. We can observe the umlaut on the u and the i

Next:

ScribalSigns_ChesterBeatty-Va.png (631.6 KiB) Viewed 864 times

Numbers 32:6 has Jordan and Moses in full, no superlinear, no apostrophe at the end.
32:11 has Abraham with an apostrophe at the end, sweet - as well as isaac, but not Jacob. Kaleb gets an identical treatment, and what we witness here is perhaps the very first text to decide that these names deserve an apostrophe at the end.
32:12 has IS for Joshua!

Well, so much for that. I'm just trying to make the most out of this for now, but am still looking for more prophecies.
So far I've proven nothing but verbatim agreement between NT and LXX, which is to be expected no matter where one comes from. That the LXX disagrees entirely with the Tanakh is puzzling of course (no it isn't) and it is obvious, under the general assumption that the LXX preceded the NT (and with which I entirely disagree), that the verbatim citation of the LXX in the NT is of no consequence to the content of the NT as long as that content isn't part of the narrative

[mlinssen]

Jeremiah "prophecies", I just plucked some from the web (https://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/ ... hecies.htm)

The Church in the Messianic Age Jer 3:14-17 Mt 16:18-19; Acts 2:1-12
The death of Christ, the lamb of sacrifice, and the Eucharist Jer 11:19 Jn 1:29, 36; Acts 8:32; 1 Pt 1:19; Rev 5:6, 12-13
Davidic "Branch" and "Yahweh-is-our-Saving-Justice"/ "Lord of Righteousness" Jer 23:5, 6 Jn 2:19-21; Rom 1:3-4; Eph 2:20-21; 1 Pt 2:5
Will be born a king and descendant of David Jer 30:9 Lk 1:32-33; Jn 18:37; Rev 1:5
The massacre of infants Jer 31:15 Mt 2:17-18
The Incarnation: "something new on earth" Jer 31:22b Mt 1:20; Lk 1:35
A New Covenant Jer 31:31-33 Mt 26:27-29; Mk 14:22-24; Lk 22:15-20; 1Cor 11:25; Heb 8:8-12; 10:15-17; 12:24; 13:20
The Gospel of salvation and the forgiveness of sins Jer 31:34 Mt 26:26-28; Heb 10:16-18; 1 Jn 2:27
The coming of the Davidic Messiah Jer 33:15-16 Mt 1:1-17; 16:18; Mk 1:1; Lk 1:31-33; Jn 1:32-33, 41
Everlasting Covenant Jer 32:40; 50:5 Heb 13:20

Already sorted by Jeremiah, so what does CB have? Fasciculus VI, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ecclesiasticus, text, Biblical-Papyri-Descriptions-and-Texts-of-Twelve-Manuscripts-on-Papyrus-of-The-Greek-Bible-VI-Opt.pdf

"The text preserved consists of Jer. iv. 30—v. i, v. 9-14, 23, 24, written in
a clear, rather large, but not very regular hand, which may be assigned to the
end of the second or beginning of the third century"

Bummer

[mlinssen]

Da 3:6 – “But whoever does not fall down and worship shall immediately be cast into the midst of a furnace of blazing fire.” Matt 13:42; Matt 13:50
Da 7:13 – “I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven; One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. Matt 24:30; Matt 26:64; Mark 13:26; Mark 14:62; Luke 21:27; Rev 1:7
Da 9:27 – And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” Matt 24:15
Da 11:31 – “Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation. Matt 24:15; Mark 13:14
Da 12:11 – “From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Mark 13:14

Grabbed those from https://www.wednesdayintheword.com/daniel-newtestament/

"Fasciculus VII, Ezekiel, Daniel, Esther, text" - but what does the TOC say?

"X. Daniel: 13 leaves, containing Dan. iii. 72— vi. 18, vii. i — viii. 27, with large lacunae"

So we'll have 1. But first, Esther:

There is a certain amount of punctuation by a high point (generally an
addition, but occasionally original), and occasional reading-marks by short
strokes (always additions). The end of a larger section is sometimes marked
by a double point or colon (xii. 5, xiii. 23, xiv. 8, xvi. 43, 63, xvii. 8). v at the
end of a line is sometimes indicated by a stroke over the preceding vowel. A
diaeresis is generally placed over initial t and v, and an apostrophe at the end
of indeclinable nouns (e.g. Lo-parjX').
The only abbreviations are in the cases of the two commonest of nomina
sacra^ de6<; and KvpLo<;. ’icrpai^X, 'lepovcraXijp, avOpoynos, vl6<s are not abbreviated.

And hen Daniel:

There are frequent itacisms, and at is often written for e, but not uniformly.
The name AavL'qX is generally undeclined, but havLrjXov occurs once, perhaps by
an oversight, since the apostrophe which marks the end of an indeclinable
proper name (^wXap, Savti^X’) is placed after the X as usual. The apostrophe is
also used at times to separate y from a following y, k, or x {ayyeXos, Tvy\aveLv).
There is a marked preference for a-forms in aorists (e^etXaro, e^eXOare, evenecrav, Trpo(7r)X9a, erreLvocrav, e^r}X6av, euTrav). ___
Abbreviations are only used for 0e6^ (including dcov for Oewv), KvpLo<;c irvedpa,
and TTvevpaTa.

And again we find ourselves in a hybrid situation with hardly any abbreviations, apostrophes still attesting to their Coptic use, and these texts are also happily guesstidated to 2nd CE. Early they are though, such is for sure

Daniel 7:13, LXX

ἐθεώρουν ἐν ὁράματι τῆς νυκτός, καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐπὶ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὡς υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου ἤρχετο, καὶ ὡς παλαιὸς ἡμερῶν παρῆν· καὶ οἱ παρεστηκότες παρῆσαν αὐτῷ.

CB:

Ah, too bad! This PDF is a bit more precise than the general TOC, namely:

Of Daniel the portions preserved and the order of the text are as follows:
Dan. hi. 72-78, 81-88, 92-94, 96—iv. 9 (omitting hi. 98-100 and iv. 3-6),
iv. 11-14% 16-19, 22-25, 28, 29, 30^-30% 34-34% vh. 1-6, 8-11,14-19, 22-25,
28—vih. 4, 7-12, 15-20,24—V. 5, 7-12,17-26 (omitting 18-22,24,25), vi. 1-8,
12-13, 16-18. It will be observed that chapters vh and vih are placed before
V and vi.

[lsayre]

Is it true that zero copies (reliable or otherwise) of the 'original' circa 270 BCE Septuagint exist? Any Septuagint that contains the NT is likely to be anything but the original Septuagint. How many differing translations of the OT have gone by the stolen name Septuagint over the centuries? Is "Septuagint" akin to "Kleenex", as in merely being a generic term, as opposed to specific?

[mlinssen]

Is it true that zero copies (reliable or otherwise) of the 'original' circa 270 BCE Septuagint exist? Any Septuagint that contains the NT is likely to be anything but the original Septuagint. How many differing translations of the OT have gone by the stolen name Septuagint over the centuries? Is "Septuagint" akin to "Kleenex", as in merely being a generic term, as opposed to specific?

The Hebrew didn't get composed until that time, as Gmirkin very compellingly has argued. The only Greek that I can find dates to 2nd / 3rd and I'm now going by all of them, as we have two different types of Greek Tanakh: the ones that contain the Chrestian-Christian scribal signs as your see here, and others that don't. And I am willing to bet a giant sum of money that the latter is much closer to the Hebrew than the former

You can witness here the verbatim agreement between NT and LXX, both of which disagree at large with the Hebrew.
The whole Septuagint creation story is a lie just as everything else