The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

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The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by mlinssen »

מִשְׁחָה (mish.chah) 'anointing' (H4888A)

Stepbible returns a great variety for this word which occurs 25 times, according to them - and one of those is very, very intruiging:
"Old Testament", just any translation (not really, Berean of course: BSB):

Leviticus 21:10 The priest who is highest among his brothers, who has had the anointing oil poured on his head and has been ordained to wear the priestly garments, must not let his hair hang loosea or tear his garments

This is the better translation which is in line with the Tanakh. Observe sefaria.org, one of the "more Hebrew" sources ;-)

Leviticus 21:10 The priest who is exalted above his fellows, on whose head the anointing oil has been poured and who has been ordained to wear the vestments, shall not bare his head or rend his vestments.

However, we also have what I consider to be the Christian version of the Tanakh, namely one that "suits their purpose" by mistranslating the Hebrew into the Greek.
What does the Greek say?

Leviticus 21:10 Καὶ ὁ ἱερεὺς ὁ μέγας ἀπὸ τῶν ἀδελφῶν αὐτοῦ, τοῦ ἐπικεχυμένου ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλὴν τοῦ ἐλαίου τοῦ χριστοῦ καὶ τετελειωμένου ἐνδύσασθαι τὰ ἱμάτια, τὴν κεφαλὴν οὐκ ἀποκιδαρώσει καὶ τὰ ἱμάτια οὐ διαρρήξει,

Do note that interesting little word there please.
And then there's also

Leviticus 21:10 And the priest that is chief among his brethren, the oil having been poured upon the head of the anointed one, and he having been consecrated to put on the garments, shall not take the mitre off his head, and shall not rend his garments

Brenton Septuagint translation

Now that is a quite different application, isn't it?

Codex Sinaiticus carries it to the extreme, by using the nomen sacrum for XS:

κα[ι] ο ϊερευϲ ο μεγαϲ
απο̣ των αδελφω
αυτου του επικε
χυμε̣[ν]ου επι τη̣ν
κεφ[α]λ̣ην του ελαι
ου τ̣ο̣υ χυ και τετε
λιωμενου ┬ ενδυ
ϲαϲθαι τα ϊματια
την κεφαλην ου
κ απομιτρωϲει
και τα ϊματια ┬ ου δι
αρρηξει

Screenshot:
Leviticus_21-10_XS.png
Leviticus_21-10_XS.png (735.07 KiB) Viewed 45669 times
I have currently located some 40 instances of these, notwithstanding the fact that blueletterbible seems unwilling to return all results when queried for the naked Greek.
Try BLB for XRIST* and it returns 20 results, for instance Leviticus 4:16 yet not Leviticus 4:4. Yet Step bible performs perfectly and returns all 40

But here we have it, guys and girls: the blatantly obvious evidence that the LXX allegedly narrated about Christ. Naturally, such hilarious and preposterous idiocy has now been obfuscated by the "translators" of the "old Testament" so that there's one less "criterion of embarrassment" to wield against Christianity.
I aim to locate all instances of XS in the LXX, as those are plain anachronisms and falsifications.
And I will say it again:

The LXX is an intentionally falsified translation of the Tanahk, meant to serve and support the fake and false Judaism that Christianity introduced on top of Chrestianity in their effort to create Christianity.
And as always with Christianity, this falsification was carried to the extreme - and possibly even beyond

For posterity, the 40 hits from Stepbible. Do observe that the translation is NOT from the LXX but from the "Old Testament". So far I have found only Brenton to provide the proper English translation to that, but the verses below will be expanded with that, as well as the Greek transcription from whichever Codex I can find.


Lev 4:5
Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull’s blood and bring it into the Tent of Meeting.
καὶ λαβὼν ὁ ἱερεὺς ὁ χριστὸς ὁ τετελειωμένος τὰς χεῖρας ἀπὸ τοῦ αἵματος τοῦ μόσχου καὶ εἰσοίσει αὐτὸ ἐπὶ τὴν σκηνὴν τοῦ μαρτυρίου·
Brenton LXX: And the anointed priest who has been consecrated having received of the blood of the calf, shall then bring it into the tabernacle of witness
Vaticanus (right column, end of line 8 from the top): και λαβων ο ιερευσ ο χρEιστος ο τετελειωµενοσ τασ χειρασ απο του αιµατοσ του µοσχου και εισοισει αυτο επι την σκηνην του µαρτυριου

(Simply amazing, that the Vatican's perfectly consistent XREIST of the NT is also present in the LXX, isn't it?. Wow, that iotacism persisted unchanged for 6-8 centuries!!! LOL)

Lev 4:16
Then the anointed priest is to bring some of the bull’s blood into the Tent of Meeting,
καὶ εἰσοίσει ὁ ἱερεὺς ὁ χριστὸς ἀπὸ τοῦ αἵματος τοῦ μόσχου εἰς τὴν σκηνὴν τοῦ μαρτυρίου·
Brenton LXX: And the anointed priest shall bring in of the blood of the calf into the tabernacle of witness
Vaticanus (left column, penultimate line) και εισοισει ο ιερευσ ο χρEιστος απο του αιµατοσ του µοσχου εισ την σκηνην του µαρτυριου

Vaticanus evidently sees xreistos as correctly representing xristos; but it is impossible for this variant to be present in a text that allegedly originated in 300 BCE, unless it was perfectly common to adjust texts for their contemporary look & feel - evidence of which will have to be brought forward by those who decide to pick up this (hopeless) glove

Lev 6:22
The priest, who is one of Aaron’s sons and will be anointed to take his place, is to prepare it. As a permanent portion for the LORD, it must be completely burned.
ὁ ἱερεὺς ὁ χριστὸς ἀντ αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν υἱῶν αὐτοῦ ποιήσει αὐτήν· νόμος αἰώνιος, ἅπαν ἐπιτελεσθήσεται.

Lev 21:10
The priest who is highest among his brothers, who has had the anointing oil poured on his head and has been ordained to wear the priestly garments, must not dishevel his hair or tear his garments.
καὶ ὁ ἱερεὺς ὁ μέγας ἀπὸ τῶν ἀδελφῶν αὐτοῦ, τοῦ ἐπικεχυμένου ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλὴν τοῦ ἐλαίου τοῦ χριστοῦ καὶ τετελειωμένου ἐνδύσασθαι τὰ ἱμάτια, τὴν κεφαλὴν οὐκ ἀποκιδαρώσει Καὶ τὰ ἱμάτια οὐ διαρρήξει
Brenton LXX: And the priest that is chief among his brethren, the oil having been poured upon the head of the anointed one, and he having been consecrated to put on the garments, shall not take the mitre off his head, and shall not rend his garments
Sinaiticus: ο ϊερευϲ ο μεγαϲ απο̣ των αδελφω αυτου του επικε χυμε̣[ν]ου επι τη̣ν κεφ[α]λ̣ην του ελαι ου τ̣ο̣υ χυ και τετε λιωμενου ┬ ενδυ ϲαϲθαι τα ϊματια την κεφαλην ου κ απομιτρωϲει και τα ϊματια ┬ ου δι αρρηξει

Lev 21:12
He must not leave or desecrate the sanctuary of his God, for the consecration of the anointing oil of his God is on him. I am the LORD.
καὶ ἐκ τῶν ἁγίων οὐκ ἐξελεύσεται καὶ οὐ βεβηλώσει τὸ ἡγιασμένον τοῦ θεοῦ αὐτοῦ, ὅτι τὸ ἅγιον ἔλαιον τὸ χριστὸν τοῦ θεοῦ ἐπ' αὐτῷ· ἐγὼ κύριος.

1Sam 2:10
Those who oppose the LORD will be shattered. He will thunder from heaven against them. The LORD will judge the ends of the earth and will give power to His king. He will exalt the horn of His anointed.”
κύριος ἀσθενῆ ποιήσει ἀντίδικον αὐτοῦ, κύριος ἅγιος. μὴ καυχάσθω ὁ φρόνιμος ἐν τῇ φρονήσει αὐτοῦ, καὶ μὴ καυχάσθω ὁ δυνατὸς ἐν τῇ δυνάμει αὐτοῦ, καὶ μὴ καυχάσθω ὁ πλούσιος ἐν τῷ πλούτῳ αὐτοῦ, ἀλλ' ἢ ἐν τούτῳ καυχάσθω ὁ καυχώμενος, συνίειν καὶ γινώσκειν τὸν κύριον καὶ ποιεῖν κρίμα καὶ δικαιοσύνην ἐν μέσῳ τῆς γῆς κύριος ἀνέβη εἰς οὐρανοὺς καὶ ἐβρόντησεν, αὐτὸς κρινεῖ ἄκρα γῆς. καὶ διδωσιν ισχυν τοις βασιλευσιν ημων και ὑψώσει κέρας χριστοῦ αὐτοῦ.

1Sam 2:35
Then I will raise up for Myself a faithful priest. He will do whatever is in My heart and mind. And I will build for him an enduring house, and he will walk before My anointed one for all time.
καὶ ἀναστήσω ἐμαυτῷ ἱερέα πιστόν, ὃς πάντα τὰ ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ μου καὶ τὰ ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ μου ποιήσει· καὶ οἰκοδομήσω αὐτῷ οἶκον πιστόν, καὶ διελεύσεται ἐνώπιον χριστοῦ μου πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας.

1Sam 12:3
Here I am. Bear witness against me before the LORD and before His anointed: Whose ox or donkey have I taken? Whom have I wronged or oppressed? From whose hand have I accepted a bribe and closed my eyes? [Tell me,] and I will restore [it] to you.
ἰδοὺ ἐγώ, ἀποκρίθητε κατ' ἐμοῦ ἐνώπιον κυρίου καὶ ἐνώπιον χριστοῦ αὐτοῦ· μόσχον τίνος εἴληφα ἢ ὄνον τίνος εἴληφα ἢ τίνα κατεδυνάστευσα ὑμῶν ἢ τίνα ἐξεπίεσα ἢ ἐκ χειρὸς τίνος εἴληφα ἐξίλασμα καὶ ὑπόδημα; ἀποκρίθητε κατ' ἐμοῦ, καὶ ἀποδώσω ὑμῖν.

1Sam 12:5
Samuel said to them, “The LORD is a witness against you, and His anointed is a witness today, that you have not found anything in my hand.” “He is a witness,” they said.
καὶ εἶπεν Σαμουηλ πρὸς τὸν λαόν μάρτυς κύριος ἐν ὑμῖν καὶ Μάρτυς χριστὸς αὐτοῦ σήμερον ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ὅτι οὐχ εὑρήκατε ἐν χειρί μου οὐθέν· καὶ εἶπαν Μάρτυς.

1Sam 16:6
When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliab and said, “Surely here before the LORD [is His] anointed.”
καὶ ἐγενήθη ἐν τῷ αὐτοὺς εἰσιέναι καὶ εἶδεν τὸν Ελιαβ καὶ εἶπεν Ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐνώπιον κυρίου χριστὸς αὐτοῦ.

1Sam 24:6
So he said to his men, “The LORD forbid that I should do such a thing to my master, the LORD’s anointed. I will never lift my hand against him, since he is the LORD’s anointed.”
καὶ εἶπεν Δαυιδ πρὸς τοὺς ἄνδρας αὐτοῦ Μηδαμῶς μοι παρὰ κυρίου, εἰ ποιήσω τὸ ῥῆμα τοῦτο τῷ κυρίῳ μου τῷ χριστῷ κυρίου ἐπενέγκαι χεῖρά μου ἐπ' αὐτόν, ὅτι χριστὸς κυρίου ἐστὶν οὗτος·

1Sam 24:10
Behold, this day you have seen with your own eyes that the LORD delivered you into my hand in the cave. I was told to kill you, but I spared you and said, ‘I will not lift my hand against my lord, since he is the LORD’s anointed.’
ἰδοὺ ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ταύτῃ ἑοράκασιν οἱ ὀφθαλμοί σου ὡς παρέδωκέν σε κύριος σήμερον εἰς χεῖρά μου, ἐν τῷ σπηλαίῳ, καὶ οὐκ ἠβουλήθην ἀποκτεῖναί σε καὶ ἐφεισάμην σου καὶ εἶπα Οὐκ ἐποίσω χεῖρά μου ἐπὶ κύριόν μου ὅτι χριστὸς κυρίου οὗτός ἐστιν.

1Sam 26:9
But David said to Abishai, “Do not destroy him, for who can lift a hand against the LORD’s anointed and be guiltless?”
καὶ εἶπεν Δαυιδ πρὸς Αβεσσα Μὴ ταπεινώσῃς αὐτόν, ὅτι τίς ἐποίσει χεῖρα αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ χριστὸν κυρίου καὶ ἀθῳωθήσεται;

1Sam 26:11
But the LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD’s anointed. Instead, take the spear and water jug by his head, and let us go.”
μηδαμῶς μοι παρὰ κυρίου ἐπενεγκεῖν χεῖρά μου ἐπὶ χριστὸν κυρίου· καὶ νῦν λαβὲ δὴ τὸ δόρυ ἀπὸ πρὸς κεφαλῆς αὐτοῦ καὶ τὸν φακὸν τοῦ ὕδατος, καὶ ἀπέλθωμεν καθ' ἑαυτούς.

1Sam 26:16
This thing you have done is not good. As surely as the LORD lives, all of you deserve to die, since you did not protect your lord, the LORD’s anointed. Now look around. Where are the king’s spear and water jug that were by his head?”
καὶ οὐκ ἀγαθὸν τὸ ῥῆμα τοῦτο, ὃ πεποίηκας· ζῇ κύριος, ὅτι υἱοὶ θανατώσεως ὑμεῖς οἱ φυλάσσοντες τὸν βασιλέα κύριον ὑμῶν τὸν χριστὸν κυρίου. καὶ νῦν ἰδὲ δή· τὸ δόρυ τοῦ βασιλέως καὶ ὁ φακὸς τοῦ ὕδατος ποῦ ἐστιν τὰ πρὸς κεφαλῆς αὐτοῦ;

1Sam 26:23
May the LORD repay every man for his righteousness and faithfulness. For the LORD delivered you into [my] hand today, but I would not stretch out my hand against the LORD's anointed.
καὶ κύριος ἐπιστρέψει ἑκάστῳ τὰς δικαιοσύνας αὐτοῦ καὶ τὴν πίστιν αὐτοῦ, ὡς παρέδωκέν σε κύριος σήμερον εἰς χεῖράς μου καὶ οὐκ ἠθέλησα ἐπενεγκεῖν χεῖρά μου ἐπὶ χριστὸν κυρίου·

2Sam 1:14
So David asked him, “Why were you not afraid to lift your hand to destroy the LORD’s anointed?”
καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Δαυιδ Πῶς οὐκ ἐφοβήθης ἐπενεγκεῖν χεῖρά σου διαφθεῖραι τὸν χριστὸν κυρίου;

2Sam 1:16
For David had said to the Amalekite, “Your blood [be] on your own head because your own mouth testified against you, saying, ‘I killed the LORD’s anointed.’”
καὶ εἶπεν Δαυιδ πρὸς αὐτόν τὸ αἷμά σου, ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλήν σοῦ ὅτι Τὸ στόμα σου ἀπεκρίθη κατὰ σου λέγων ὅτι Ἐγὼ ἐθανάτωσα τὸν χριστὸν κυρίου.

2Sam 2:5
So David sent messengers to the men of Jabesh-gilead to tell them, “The LORD bless you, because you have shown this kindness to Saul your lord when you buried him.
καὶ ἀπέστειλεν Δαυιδ ἀγγέλους πρὸς τοὺς ἡγουμένους Ιαβις τῆς Γαλααδίτιδος καὶ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτούς Εὐλογημένοι ὑμεῖς τῷ κυρίῳ, ὅτι πεποιήκατε τὸ ἔλεος τοῦτο ἐπὶ τὸν κύριον ὑμῶν ἐπὶ Σαουλ τὸν χριστὸν κυρίου καὶ ἐθάψατε αὐτὸν καὶ Ιωναθαν τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ·

2Sam 19:21
But Abishai son of Zeruiah said, “Shouldn’t Shimei be put to death for this, because he cursed the LORD’s anointed?”
καὶ ἀπεκρίθη Αβεσσα υἱὸς Σαρουιας καὶ εἶπεν Μὴ ἀντὶ τούτου οὐ θανατωθήσεται Σεμει, ὅτι κατηράσατο τὸν χριστὸν κυρίου;

2Sam 22:51
Great salvation {He brings to} His king. He shows loving devotion to His anointed, to David and his descendants forever.”
μεγαλύνων σωτηρίας βασιλέως αὐτοῦ καὶ ποιῶν ἔλεος τῷ χριστῷ αὐτοῦ, τῷ Δαυιδ καὶ τῷ σπέρματι αὐτοῦ ἕως αἰῶνος.

2Sam 23:1
These are the last words of David: “The oracle of David son of Jesse, the oracle of the man raised on high, the one anointed by the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel:
καὶ οὗτοι οἱ λόγοι Δαυιδ οἱ ἔσχατοι πιστὸς Δαυιδ υἱὸς Ιεσσαι, καὶ Πιστὸς ἀνήρ, ὃν ἀνέστησεν κύριος ἐπὶ χριστὸν θεοῦ Ιακωβ, Καὶ εὐπρεπεῖς ψαλμοὶ Ισραηλ.

1Chr 16:22
‘Do not touch My anointed ones; do no harm to My prophets.’
μὴ ἅψησθε τῶν χριστῶν μου καὶ ἐν τοῖς προφήταις μου Μὴ πονηρεύεσθε.

2Chr 6:42
O LORD God, do not reject Your anointed one. Remember [Your] loving devotion to Your servant David.”
κύριε ὁ θεός, μὴ ἀποστρέψῃς τὸ πρόσωπον τοῦ χριστοῦ σου, μνήσθητι τὰ ἐλέη Δαυιδ τοῦ δούλου σου.

2Chr 22:7
Ahaziah’s downfall came from God when he went to visit Joram. When Ahaziah arrived, he went out with Joram to meet Jehu son of Nimshi, whom the LORD had anointed to destroy the house of Ahab.
καὶ παρὰ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐγένετο καταστροφὴ Οχοζια ἐλθεῖν πρὸς Ιωραμ· καὶ ἐν τῷ ἐλθεῖν αὐτὸν ἐξῆλθεν μετ' αὐτοῦ Ιωραμ πρὸς Ιου υἱὸν Ναμεσσι χριστὸν κυρίου τὸν οἶκον Αχααβ.

Ps 2:2
The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together, against the LORD and against His Anointed One:
παρέστησαν οἱ βασιλεῖς τῆς γῆς, καὶ οἱ ἄρχοντες συνήχθησαν ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτὸ κατὰ τοῦ κυρίου καὶ κατὰ τοῦ χριστοῦ αὐτοῦ διάψαλμα

Ps 18:50
{He brings} great salvation to His king. He shows loving devotion to His anointed, to David and his descendants forever.
μεγαλύνων τὰς σωτηρίας τοῦ βασιλέως αὐτοῦ καὶ ποιῶν ἔλεος τῷ χριστῷ αὐτοῦ, τῷ Δαυιδ καὶ τῷ σπέρματι αὐτοῦ ἕως αἰῶνος.

Ps 20:6
Now I know that the LORD saves His anointed; He answers him from His holy heaven with the saving power of His right hand.
νῦν ἔγνων ὅτι ἔσωσεν κύριος τὸν χριστὸν αὐτοῦ· ἐπακούσεται αὐτοῦ ἐξ οὐρανοῦ ἁγίου αὐτοῦ· ἐν δυναστείαις ἡ σωτηρία τῆς δεξιᾶς αὐτοῦ.

Ps 28:8
The LORD is the strength of His people, a stronghold of salvation for His anointed .
κύριος κραταίωμα τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ καὶ ὑπερασπιστὴς τῶν σωτηρίων τοῦ χριστοῦ αὐτοῦ ἐστιν.

Ps 84:9
Behold our shield, O God, and look with favor on the face of Your anointed.
ὑπερασπιστὰ ἡμῶν, ἰδέ, ὁ θεός, καὶ ἐπίβλεψον ἐπὶ τὸ πρόσωπον τοῦ χριστοῦ σου.

Ps 89:38
But You have spurned and rejected him; You are enraged by Your anointed one.
σὺ δὲ ἀπώσω καὶ ἐξουδένωσας, ἀνεβάλου τὸν χριστόν σου·

Ps 89:51
how Your enemies have taunted, O LORD, how they have mocked every step of Your anointed one.
οὗ ὠνείδισαν οἱ ἐχθροί σου, κύριε, οὗ ὠνείδισαν τὸ ἀντάλλαγμα τοῦ χριστοῦ σου.

Ps 105:15
“Do not touch My anointed ones; do no harm to My prophets.”
μὴ ἅπτεσθε τῶν χριστῶν μου καὶ ἐν τοῖς προφήταις μου Μὴ πονηρεύεσθε.

Ps 132:10
For the sake of Your servant David, do not reject Your anointed one.
ἕνεκεν Δαυιδ τοῦ δούλου σου. μὴ ἀποστρέψῃς τὸ πρόσωπον τοῦ χριστοῦ σου

Ps 132:17
There I will make a horn grow for David; I have prepared a lamp for My anointed one.
ἐκεῖ ἐξανατελῶ κέρας τῷ Δαυιδ, ἡτοίμασα λύχνον τῷ χριστῷ μου·

Isa 45:1
This is what the LORD says to Cyrus His anointed, whose right hand I have grasped to subdue nations before him, to disarm kings, to open the doors before him, so that the gates will not be shut:
Οὕτως λέγει κύριος ὁ θεὸς τῷ χριστῷ μου Κύρῳ, οὗ ἐκράτησα τῆς δεξιᾶς ἐπακοῦσαι ἔμπροσθεν αὐτοῦ ἔθνη, καὶ ἰσχὺν βασιλέων διαρρήξω, ἀνοίξω ἔμπροσθεν αὐτοῦ θύρας, καὶ πόλεις οὐ συγκλεισθήσονται

Lam 4:20
The LORD’s anointed, the breath of our life, was captured in their pits. We had said of him, “Under his shadow we will live among the nations.”
(LXX)
Πνεῦμα προσώπου ἡμῶν χριστὸς κυρίου συνελήμφθη ἐν ταῖς διαφθοραις αὐτῶν, οὗ εἴπαμεν ἐν τῇ σκιᾷ αὐτοῦ ζησόμεθα Ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν.

Dan 9:25
Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress.
καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ συνήσεις· ἀπὸ ἐξόδου λόγου τοῦ ἀποκριθῆναι καὶ τοῦ οἰκοδομῆσαι Ιερουσαλημ ἕως χριστοῦ ἡγουμένου ἑβδομάδες ἑπτὰ καὶ ἑβδομάδες ἑξήκοντα δύο· καὶ ἐπιστρέψει καὶ οἰκοδομηθήσεται πλατεῖα καὶ τεῖχος, καὶ ἐκκενωθήσονται οἱ καιροί.

Amos 4:13
For behold, He who forms the mountains, who creates the wind, and reveals His thoughts to man, the One who turns the dawn to darkness and strides on the heights of the earth, the LORD, the God of Hosts, is His name.”
διότι ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ στερεῶν βροντὴν καὶ κτίζων πνεῦμα καὶ ἀπαγγέλλων εἰς ἀνθρώπους τὸν χριστὸν αὐτοῦ, ποιῶν ὄρθρον καὶ ὁμίχλην καὶ ἐπιβαίνων ἐπὶ τὰ ὕψη τῆς γῆς· κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ ὄνομα αὐτῷ.

Hab 3:13
You went forth for the salvation of Your people, to save Your anointed. You crushed the head of the house of the wicked and stripped him from head to foot. Selah
ἐξῆλθες εἰς σωτηρίαν λαοῦ σου· τοῦ σῶσαι τοὺς χριστούς σου ἔβαλες εἰς κεφαλὰς ἀνόμων θάνατον, ἐξήγειρας δεσμοὺς ἕως τραχήλου. διάψαλμα.

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Leucius Charinus
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by Leucius Charinus »

mlinssen wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:22 am
I aim to locate all instances of XS in the LXX, as those are plain anachronisms and falsifications.
And I will say it again:

The LXX is an intentionally falsified translation of the Tanahk, meant to serve and support the fake and false Judaism that Christianity introduced on top of Chrestianity in their effort to create Christianity.
And as always with Christianity, this falsification was carried to the extreme - and possibly even beyond

For posterity ...
8 years back: Did Christians "cook" the LXX translation?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1219

AFAIK Origen (3rd century) and Jerome (4th century) were the only two "Fathers" who were reported to have been involved in translations (by Christians) from the Hebrew to the Greek.
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by Stuart »

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Were the deviations in circulation in some communities before they became Christian, and in fact were part of the evolution in that direction. Or was the community fully Christian already when the Greek texts were interpreted? Were the changes tendentious or rather partly explained by poor translation skills by Greek speakers of the community with some Hebrew knowledge, but struggle here and there with translation?

To my first point, archeologists and evolutionary biologists will answer the egg. At some point before there was a chicken, a near chicken laid an egg.
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by mlinssen »

Stuart wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:50 pm Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Were the deviations in circulation in some communities before they became Christian, and in fact were part of the evolution in that direction. Or was the community fully Christian already when the Greek texts were interpreted? Were the changes tendentious or rather partly explained by poor translation skills by Greek speakers of the community with some Hebrew knowledge, but struggle here and there with translation?

To my first point, archeologists and evolutionary biologists will answer the egg. At some point before there was a chicken, a near chicken laid an egg.
"Deviation"?! This is an outright Christifying of the Tanakh.
What we are seeing here is a nomen sacrum, and those originated within Chrestianity and got copied along with everything else by Christianity.
Only xristians could have needed these words to be abbreviated to the nomen sacrum for what they interpreted to be xrist

I don't know any better than that mâshach means anointed, ointment, anointing: basically anything rubbed with the hand, I believe. So translating it with Xristos is nothing out of the ordinary I think.
Poor translation skills have very little to do with the differences between the MT and the LXX, as the differences for the greatest part so very conveniently serve and sustain the NT: they are no coincidence - although the Hebrew of the Romans highly likely was equally as poor as was their Greek

Your chicken and egg is an easy problem to solve: we all know that cells multiply, or rather, clone. When the mother cell evolves it is likely that the cloning process remains relatively intact or at least doesn't evolve along at the same level, perhaps it even can't. But a chicken laying an egg is nothing but evolved - yet in an unbalanced way - cell cloning
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by Stuart »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:26 pm
mlinssen wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:22 am
I aim to locate all instances of XS in the LXX, as those are plain anachronisms and falsifications.
And I will say it again:

The LXX is an intentionally falsified translation of the Tanahk, meant to serve and support the fake and false Judaism that Christianity introduced on top of Chrestianity in their effort to create Christianity.
And as always with Christianity, this falsification was carried to the extreme - and possibly even beyond

For posterity ...
8 years back: Did Christians "cook" the LXX translation?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1219

AFAIK Origen (3rd century) and Jerome (4th century) were the only two "Fathers" who were reported to have been involved in translations (by Christians) from the Hebrew to the Greek.
These are legends. The naming of these two should be treated in the same sense as we treat legends of this or that church or this or that letter being written by Paul or Peter or John. It was very common to ascribe the name of a legendary character to something in order to gain authority. We should no more accept that than we do the concept that apostles Matthew and John, or members of the seventy Luke and Mark wrote gospels, as the lore of the church fathers would have us believe.

Just like the gospels, the LXX translations were likely the work of many unnamed scribes over a significant period of time. No doubt editorial layers standardized them. I think much the same about Patristic writings, that they are compendiums if material sometimes from very different unnamed authors with and editor that gives us a false sense of unity, and are ascribed to a legendary figure. Hermann Detering did an excellent analysis of the writings of Augustin, that show quite clearly the works were put together long after his death and from a 3rd person perspective. My view is the same applies to nearly all the Patristic writings, not just the NT.

I do think mlinssen misses the point, that in the translation to Greek, and through usage, Christ (the anointed) came to hold a different meaning than the OT. Thus the same word would have been interpreted differently in the 1st century BC and the 2nd century AD, in addition to the different context it held in Greek than it did in Hebrew.

Mind you, I do agree a few changes were tendentious, but most are simply translation incidentals, with language difference and belief system of the interpreter accounting for the rest of the changed interpretation. But conspiracies are easier to believe than accidents for some people.
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by MrMacSon »

Stuart wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:41 pm [many if not most or even all] Patristic writings...are compendiums of material sometimes from very different unnamed authors with an editor that gives us a false sense of unity, and are ascribed to a legendary figure. Hermann Detering did an excellent analysis of the writings of Augustin, that show quite clearly the works were put together long after his death and from a 3rd person perspective. My view is the same applies to nearly all the Patristic writings, not just the NT.
  • I agree! (and hope I haven't misrepresented Stuart with my edits of this part of his post)

    In my ponderings, I have thought the word 'repositories' might better reflect what happened; so, perhaps:
    • repository-compendiums, or
    • compended-repositories, or similar (but using different descriptor-words) might capture the proposed concept better

    Furthermore, while I generally agree with what Stuart said prior to those statements viz.
Stuart wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:41 pm
Leucius Charinus wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:26 pm AFAIK Origen (3rd century) and Jerome (4th century) were the only two "Fathers" who were reported to have been involved in translations (by Christians) from the Hebrew to the Greek.
These are legends. The naming of these two should be treated in the same sense as we treat legends of this or that church or this or that letter [allegedly] being written by Paul or Peter or John. It was very common to ascribe the name of a legendary character to something in order to gain authority. We should no more accept that than we do the concept that apostles Matthew and John, or members of the seventy Luke and Mark wrote gospels, as the lore of the church fathers would have us believe.
  • the proposal or discussion of the issue may well require more teasing out eg.
    1. whether 'people' such as Origen and Jerome (and others, such as Lactantius and Eusebius, and even - or especially - Tertullian) were and are fully legend; or
      .
    2. whether some of these people were actually historical person's and they and their body of works became repositories for later works(+/- their own, actual works were elaborated on)
    Leucius Charinus is, iirc, fully aware of these propositions wrt Origen, his alleged mentor, Adamantius, and others.

    The numbers of Eusebius's around this time is intriguing, as they say, 'at the least.'
    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius_(disambiguation)

In the context of the proposition of the writings of patristic ('falsifying') fathers as legend, this (which I didn't know) ought to be re-iterated:
Stuart wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:41 pm Hermann Detering did an excellent analysis of the writings of Augustine that shows, quite clearly, the works were put together long after his death and from a 3rd person perspective
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by MrMacSon »

Stuart wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:41 pm Just like the gospels, the LXX translations were likely the work of many unnamed scribes over a significant period of time. No doubt editorial layers standardized them.
  • I'm not so sure 'many unnamed scribes' are responsible for the LXX.

    I tend to think there had to be a context or a purpose to the LXX beyond 'scribes did it [haphazardly]'

    But what came first the LXX or the Tanakh is, iiuc, a difficult and perplexing issue

    The proposals of Russel Gmirkin that the Pentateuch or the Hexateuch were written relatively late - ie. in the 270s bce - and, iiuc, using Greek sources, might well be relevant
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by mlinssen »

Stuart wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:41 pm Mind you, I do agree a few changes were tendentious, but most are simply translation incidentals, with language difference and belief system of the interpreter accounting for the rest of the changed interpretation. But conspiracies are easier to believe than accidents for some people.
Assertions are easier made than arguments

viewtopic.php?p=150115#p150115

Go there please, and know that the first "accident" is that the LXX introduces a futurum, neatly turning into possible prophecies what happened in the past
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Stuart wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:41 pm
Leucius Charinus wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:26 pm
mlinssen wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:22 am
I aim to locate all instances of XS in the LXX, as those are plain anachronisms and falsifications.
And I will say it again:

The LXX is an intentionally falsified translation of the Tanahk, meant to serve and support the fake and false Judaism that Christianity introduced on top of Chrestianity in their effort to create Christianity.
And as always with Christianity, this falsification was carried to the extreme - and possibly even beyond

For posterity ...
8 years back: Did Christians "cook" the LXX translation?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1219

AFAIK Origen (3rd century) and Jerome (4th century) were the only two "Fathers" who were reported to have been involved in translations (by Christians) from the Hebrew to the Greek.
These are legends. The naming of these two should be treated in the same sense as we treat legends of this or that church or this or that letter being written by Paul or Peter or John. It was very common to ascribe the name of a legendary character to something in order to gain authority. We should no more accept that than we do the concept that apostles Matthew and John, or members of the seventy Luke and Mark wrote gospels, as the lore of the church fathers would have us believe.
I should have italicized the term "reported". The position that I have explored in this forum is that the ante Nicene church fathers are not just legendary, but rather entirely fictional pseudo-historical inventions of the later church [industry]. Ditto for Jesus, the apostles and the seventy. Obviously this position is extreme however it provides an opportunity to critically examine the set of primary physical evidence available in support of the mainstream position for Christian origins.
Just like the gospels, the LXX translations were likely the work of many unnamed scribes over a significant period of time. No doubt editorial layers standardized them. I think much the same about Patristic writings, that they are compendiums if material sometimes from very different unnamed authors with and editor that gives us a false sense of unity, and are ascribed to a legendary figure.
As indicated by my earlier comments above, I'd agree with this. However I stress that it is vitally important to separate out each of these classes of Christian writings: 1) canonical NT, 2) apocryphal NT, 3) patristic writings (which could be termed "Ecclesiastical History". For the full picture (taking the above into account) we could add 4) LXX and even 5) OT apocryphal literature. Also 6) Non Christian literature and finally 7) archeological artefacts. These is see as the strands or classes of evidence. Each of these IMHO will have different origins (composing authors), layers of redaction, and manuscript transmission histories.

But to return to the "Christianised version of the LXX" it is quite conceivable that this was assembled by the same group of people who composed the NT canonical writings. The OP differentiates between a standard Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, and a Greek translation completely riddled with (Trade Mark Christian) runes (i.e. "nomina sacra"). Fragments of Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible exist in the DSS. So people were dealing with this form BCE. The "Christianised LXX" is a completely different animal. The OP is investigating how different it is. There is little or no PHYSICAL evidence of NT canonical or apocryphal writings prior to the 3rd century. I think the same applied to the (Christianised) LXX. So we could be looking down the barrel of a very late invention.


Hermann Detering did an excellent analysis of the writings of Augustin, that show quite clearly the works were put together long after his death and from a 3rd person perspective. My view is the same applies to nearly all the Patristic writings, not just the NT.
I have read a little on this but do not recall whether Detering names and thus dates the later inventors of the source we now call "Augustine". I'd be interested to know. My own position parallels Detering in that I believe it is reasonable to propose that the four "Doctors" of the 4th century Latin church, and the three "Doctors" of the Greek church, are also fabricated sources. These "Doctors" presented the high-level primary material studied ad nauseum by the Ecclesiastical Education system of the later middle ages - in Latin from the 13th century and in Greek from the 16th century. The "Doctors" of the church industry are in fact highly "doctored" manuscripts.
I do think mlinssen misses the point, that in the translation to Greek, and through usage, Christ (the anointed) came to hold a different meaning than the OT. Thus the same word would have been interpreted differently in the 1st century BC and the 2nd century AD, in addition to the different context it held in Greek than it did in Hebrew.
Let's wait a see what mlinssen presents with his study of the Greek manuscripts of the LXX and their use patterns for the runes of Christ.
Mind you, I do agree a few changes were tendentious, but most are simply translation incidentals, with language difference and belief system of the interpreter accounting for the rest of the changed interpretation. But conspiracies are easier to believe than accidents for some people.
But we are dealing with the extremely powerful church industry which held a monopoly on much of the religion of the Roman empire during the 4th century and afterwards. Conspiracy is defined as "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful". Pious forgery is fraud.
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Re: The falsified LXX was meant to support the NT. Nomina sacra for Christ / xristos in the "OT"

Post by mlinssen »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:11 am
Stuart wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:41 pm
I do think mlinssen misses the point, that in the translation to Greek, and through usage, Christ (the anointed) came to hold a different meaning than the OT. Thus the same word would have been interpreted differently in the 1st century BC and the 2nd century AD, in addition to the different context it held in Greek than it did in Hebrew.
Let's wait a see what mlinssen presents with his study of the Greek manuscripts of the LXX and their use patterns for the runes of Christ.
Stuart is trying very hard here, it would seem. If we have "Messiah" in Hebrew that can be translated to "anointed" in Greek, which is an interpretation.
Naturally, "Messiah" would be the correct translation - but hey, Stuart has to make a case for his religion, of course.
If we translate it to anointed, there are quite a few greek words to use there, one of which would be the participle of XRIO - and again, that is a selection that could be made.
But if that so very specific choice in that so very specific interpretation is made, then - and even then! - it is hilarious to abbreviate that to the nomen sacrum XS

Of course we can have a zealous scribe for Sinaiticus, insisting on turning xristos into the NS in the Tanakh part of the Codex - but is Stuart now really arguing that such would be a case of "through usage, Christ (the anointed) came to hold a different meaning than the OT".
In other words, is he really alleging that the nomen sacrum stems from the Tanakh part?!
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