How much probable is that the suetonian "impulsore Chresto" is a reference to the Jewish Messiah?

[Peter Kirby]

I'm not too hung up on the relative frequency of the name. And I don't know it.

What's relevant to me is that (a) it was a name people used and (b) it was in use for people in unexceptional circumstances and not only in just one or two examples, such that, if someone were going to turn around and say "hey! that's an uncommon name! it's unlikely anyone actually had that name!" they'd be wrong.

You already dug up the evidence that I already dug up in the past. QED.

I've followed the links

https://books.google.nl/books?id=lwzliM ... &q&f=false - the book series that someone else argued that again someone else argued that Chrestus is a common name. There's no motivation, argumentation, nothing

https://books.google.nl/books?id=JyYKIc ... &q&f=false - the book quotes Tertullian and Lactantius (LOL!) on how Chrestians and Chrestos merely are mistakes, which is precisely what I'd expect them to argue

https://books.google.nl/books?id=k8ECAA ... &q&f=false - just an uneventful story about the Claudius quote

https://books.google.nl/books?id=qXrYAA ... edir_esc=y - no preview available

These are mere assertions, and none of them provide even one single example.
Exactly as I started out with, there has never been provided any evidence.

I'm disappointed. I expected more from you.

I've spent the past 4 years doing everyone else's homework Peter, and I've solved the entire puzzle. I'm just wrapping up here

Biblical academic is infested by and founded on mere opinions, and not even a gazillion lifetimes would be enough to debunk all of them

You haven't pointed me to at least one single book that contains more than just an opinion, so I'll conclude this with my opening statement:

Rubbish. The slave name story is gossip, for which I've never seen even one single piece of evidence

"I've solved the entire puzzle" ... wasn't really the question here, but confidence is fun

"Biblical academic is infested by and founded on mere opinions" ... often, that's obviously so

"You haven't pointed me to at least one single book that contains more than just an opinion" ... so your complaint seems to be that I provided quite a bit of evidence for what I said, but the books you found me mention back then did not present that evidence (when I didn't claim they did)

"The slave name story is gossip, for which I've never seen even one single piece of evidence" ... maybe you should keep cracking at that puzzle, I gave you a reference to a 3-volume work in German on slaves names that you haven't read when solving the entire puzzle ... isn't it interesting how there's usually more to discover, if you're not trying to throw up walls and declare it done?

I'm fine with it if you want to sneer at academics who have offered statements here without presenting evidence. You're correct about that.

But here's what I said was the evidence that I already dug up in the past (I did not call the books evidence):

"Chrestus was a common name in Rome."
https://books.google.com/books?id=lwzliMSRGGkC&pg=PA33

"ordinary name Chrestus"
https://books.google.com/books?id=JyYKIclOBzkC&pg=PA204

"Chrestus was a common name"
https://books.google.com/books?id=k8ECAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA201

"Pagans certainly had a pretty common proper name in 'Chrestus'"
https://books.google.com/books?id=qXrYAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA16

I see that asserted a lot, but I haven't seen anyone do substantial work to back up the claim.

The name is of Greek origin (2nd century BC or earlier apparently) and enters Latin from there (around the turn of the era apparently), based on the recorded documentary examples extant. I have not looked into the literary sources yet, as this took my evening already. (And I already spent a morning wrestling with Diogenes to search Josephus in another vain quest.)

Latin Inscriptions

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 99&lang=en (dated first century AD)
C(aius) Vettius C(ai) l(ibertus) / Chrestus vivo / sibi f(ecit) et Arutiae Ti(beri) f(iliae) / [Max]imae [------?

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 74&lang=en (dated first century AD)
C(aius) Maecenas / Chrestus // Amoena / Lyri et / Soteridis

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 33&lang=en (dated first century AD)
V(ivit) / C(ai) Numis(i) |(mulieris) / l(iberti) Chresti / in fr(onte) p(edes) XIII / in ag(ro) p(edes) XII

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD004299 (dated first century AD)
C(aius) Vettius C(ai) l(ibertus) / Chrestus. Vivo* / sibi f(ecit) et Arutiae Ti(beri) f(iliae) / [Max]imae [------?
* I live. Numerous examples in Latin inscriptions.

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD001312 (dated second century AD)
D(is) M(anibus) / Coetonis marito / Hermeroti con/iugi bene / merenti fecit / Chrestus precep/tori (teacher/tutor) suo fecit / bene merenti

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD038529 (dated 171-250 AD)
Silvano / M(arcus) Chrest(us?) / pro salut(e) / M(arci) Antoni / Florentini / fili mei / v(otum) s(olvi) l(ibens) m(erito)

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD000765 (dated third century AD)
For the ghost gods [D.M.S. is traditional] / to Chrestus / most holy / husband of Corinthias, a sweet wife, who earned good merit.
D(is) M(anibus) s(acrum) / Chresto / sanctissimo / marito Corin/thias dulcis/sima uxor be/ne merenti / fecit

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD001312
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 10&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 65&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/in ... _nr=123338
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/inschrift/HD047425
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 91&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD038613
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD037610
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 13&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 29&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 33&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 27&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 12&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 25&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 74&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 84&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 91&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 46&lang=en
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... region%3D5
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D29

Greek Inscriptions

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D15 (dated 121-111 BC)
of Mithradates Eupatoros and of the brothers of Mithradates Chrestos
Μιθραδάτου Εὐπάτορος καὶ τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ αὐτοῦ Μιθραδάτου Χρήστου

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... region%3D7 (dated 1st c. BC)
Χρήστου καὶ Ἰκαδίου [other personal names follow]

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D172 (dated mid-1st century BC)
Χρήστου.
Signature of the potter Chrestos. Clay lamp.

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D231 (dated ca. 100-50 BC)
Στρατονίκη γυνὴ Χρήστου καὶ υἱὲ Χαρίξενε, χαίρετε.
Stratonike, a wife of Chrestos. And a son of Charixene. We greet you.

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D40
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D36
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D36
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D195
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D12
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... y%3D277719
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D36
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D653
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D36
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D40

Greek Papyri

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.corn;;25 ('Account of wages for farm labor', dated 28-23 BC)
Chrestos drachmas 6
Χρήστου (δραχμαὶ) ϛ

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.thmouis;1;1 (dated AD 180-192)

http://papyri.info/hgv/15996/?q=transcr ... %E1%BF%B3) (dated June, AD 235)

http://www.papyri.info/hgv/22619 (dated AD 220-221)

http://www.papyri.info/hgv/22330 (dated 24 Dec, AD 240)

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.mich;8;521#to-app-choice01
Please give Chrestos... Please furnish to the said Chrestos
Χρήστῳ ... τῷ αὐτῷ Χρήστῳ

http://papyri.info/hgv/10401/
To Aurelius Chrestos, strategos
Αὐρηλίῳ Χρήστῳ στρατηγῷ

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/sb;12;10879
I, Herodes, through me, his son Chrestos
Ἡρώδης διʼ ἐμοῦ υἱοῦ Χρήστου

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.laur;4;176
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/10514
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/sb;22;15786
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/32643
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.waqfa;;1
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;3;220
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;1;46
http://papyri.info/hgv/73950/
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/34340
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/97252
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;3;284
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;2;75
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;4;367
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/131736
http://papyri.info/hgv/74032/

The word chrestos in Greek is as old as Homer. Good, useful. Adjective. It becomes a Greek name at some point. The earliest example I found so far in Greek is about two centuries before the earliest I found in Latin of Chestus (name only not adjective). I have not yet searched the literary remains. Citations above. Posted from phone.

The word chrestos in Greek is as old as Homer.

Okay this is not, necessarily, strictly true. It's not found in Homer (adjectival or not) but is at least pre-Plato (who uses the adjective).

I have not looked into the literary sources yet, as this took my evening already.

Here are some of the literary sources.

Greek Literary Sources

Plutarchus Biogr., Phil., Marius (ca. late 1st century AD)
Chapter 44, section 1, line 1

ὑπενόησε δ' οὐδείς, ἀλλ' οὕτω λαθὼν ὁ Κορνοῦτος ὑπὸ
τῶν οἰκετῶν εἰς Γαλατίαν διεκομίσθη.
Χρηστῷ δὲ καὶ Μᾶρκος Ἀντώνιος ὁ ῥήτωρ φίλῳ
χρησάμενος, ἠτύχησεν.

Pausanias Perieg., Graeciae descriptio (ca. 2nd century AD)
Book 8, chapter 27, section 11, line 6

χρόνον δὲ οὐ μετὰ
πολὺν Ἀριστόδημος Μεγαλοπολίταις ἀνέφυ τύραννος,
Φιγαλεὺς μὲν γένος καὶ υἱὸς Ἀρτύλα, ποιησαμένου δὲ
αὐτὸν Τριταίου τῶν οὐκ ἀδυνάτων ἐν Μεγάλῃ πόλει·
τούτῳ τῷ Ἀριστοδήμῳ καὶ τυραννοῦντι ἐξεγένετο ὅμως
ἐπικληθῆναι Χρηστῷ.

Claudius Aelianus Soph., Varia historia (ca. early third century AD)
Book 12, section 43, line 16

Φωκίων δὲ ὁ Χρηστὸς ἐπικληθεὶς πατρὸς
μὲν δοίδυκας ἐργαζομένου ἦν, Δημήτριον δὲ τὸν Φα-
ληρέα οἰκότριβα γενέσθαι λέγουσιν ἐκ τῆς οἰκίας τῆς
Τιμοθέου καὶ Κόνωνος.

Appianus Hist., Mithridatica (ca. 2nd century AD)
Section 32, line 4

ὃ δὲ τοῦτο μὲν ἤνεγκε, Νικομήδει
δὲ τῷ Νικομήδους τοῦ Προυσίου, Βιθυνίας ὡς πατρῴας
ὑπὸ Ῥωμαίων ἀποδειχθέντι βασιλεύειν, Σωκράτη τὸν
ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ Νικομήδους, ὅτῳ Χρηστὸς ἐπώνυμον ἦν,
μετὰ στρατιᾶς <ἐπ>έπεμψε· καὶ τὴν Βιθυνῶν ἀρχὴν ὁ
Σωκράτης ἐς αὑτὸν περιέσπασε.

Memnon Hist., Fragmenta (ca. 1st or 2nd century AD)
Fragment 4, line 69

(9) Τεκνωσάμενος δὲ γʹ παῖδας ἐκ τῆς Ἀμά-
στριος, Κλέαρχον, Ὀξάθρην καὶ θυγατέρα ὁμώνυμον τῇ
μητρὶ, μέλλων τελευτᾶν ταύτην τε τῶν ὅλων δέσποιναν
καταλιμπάνει καὶ τῶν παίδων κομιδῆ νηπίων ὄντων σύν
τισιν ἑτέροις ἐπίτροπον, βιοὺς μὲν ἔτη εʹ καὶ νʹ, ὧν ἐπὶ
ἀρχῆ λʹ ἐγνωρίζετο, πραότατος ἐν αὐτῇ, ὡς εἴρηται,
γεγονὼς καὶ τὸ Χρηστὸς ἐπίκλησιν ἐκ τῶν ἠθῶν ἐνεγ-
κάμενος, καὶ πολὺν πόθον τοῖς ὑπὸ χεῖρα καὶ πένθος
λιπών.

Athanasius Theol., Apologia contra Arianos sive Apologia secunda (ca. 4th century AD)
Chapter 7, section 2, line 2

οἴδατε γὰρ ἀκριβῶς, ὅτι Ἀμφίων μὲν ἐν Νικο-
μηδείᾳ, Χρηστὸς δὲ ἐν Νικαίᾳ κατεστάθησαν ἀντ' αὐτῶν διὰ τὴν οἰκείαν ἀσέβειαν καὶ
τὴν πρὸς τοὺς Ἀρειομανίτας κοινωνίαν τοὺς ἀπὸ τῆς συνόδου τῆς οἰκουμενικῆς ἀποδοκι-
μασθέντας.

Latin Literary Sources

L. Iunius Moderatus Columella. De Re Rustica (ca. mid first century AD)
book 1, chapter 1, section 8, line 5

Athenae uero scriptorum frequen-
tiam pepererunt, e qua probatissimi auctores Chaereas,
Aristandros, Amphilochus, Euphronius, Chrestus – Euphro-
nius non, ut multi putant, Amphipolites, qui et ipse lauda-
bilis habetur agricola, sed indigena soli Attici.

Pompeius Trogus. Historiae Philippicae (ca. 2nd century AD or later)
book 38, fragment 152, line 64

Non
regem Bithyniae Chreston, in quem senatus arma decreverat,
a se in gratiam illorum occisum?

Granius Licinianus. Annales (ca. second century AD)
book 35, sentence 91, line 1

Exceptus a rege munifice, Chrestus etiam quasi meliore nomine ab
eodem voca<tus>, Romam ad regnum expetendum frustra profectus
<Cyz>icum redit.

C. Suetonius Tranquillus. De Vita Caesarum (ca. early second century AD)
life Cl, chapter 25, section 4, line 2

Iudaeos impul-
sore Chresto assidue tumultuantis Roma expulit.

But, yes, if you want to continue to ignore this and continue to grandstand about the fact that you haven't gotten any evidence regarding some other people's claims about a "slave name" of Chrestus served to you on a forum, that's ok. You can do that. It just shows poorly on you.

[Peter Kirby]

You are introducing something new, and have failed to make that clear until now or it is merely me who failed to grasp that: the distinction between merely a common name, and a common name for slaves

What happened is that, originally, I simply and politely asked for what you meant - what your point was - because it wasn't clear to me.

Then you gave this reply and introduced quotes of what I said, which made it seem relevant to talk about what I was claiming:

Rubbish. The slave name story is gossip, for which I've never seen even one single piece of evidence

A name on Italian pottery from around 15BC to AD15 (or AD40) now in the British Museum. The link may ask to accept the typical choice of cookies --- if one doesn't want to do that, I cut and pasted the information below.

I found this with just a couple of minutes of looking. I'm not sure how the Museum concluded that the name "Chrestus" indicated the individual was a slave, but I suspect there is more evidence out there to support such a conclusion.


https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/term/BIOG57773


Chrestus Rasinius

Information
Related objects

Also known as
Chrestus Rasinius
primary name: primary name: Chrestus
other name: other name: Chrestus Rasinius

Details
individual; ceramicist/glass worker/potter; Roman; Male

Other dates
15BC-40 (active circa)

Biography
Slave of Rasinius, the owner of an Arretine pottery workshop based in Arezzo, active around 15BC to AD15 (or AD40). Name stamped on Italian Terra Sigillata (Italian Red Slip Ware) fineware pottery vessels. (Oxé, Comfort & Kenrick 2000, 352-357).

Bibliography
Oxé, A., Comfort, H. & Kenrick, P. 2000, Corpus vasorum Arretinorum : a catalogue of the signatures, shapes and chronology of Italian sigillata, 2nd Edition, Bonn : Habelt.

Yup, that's my point.
Plenty of chrestus BCE, relatively speaking:

try John Bartram's Conjuring Jesus

When you say "Yup, that's my point" ... what is your point?

(and, sorry, I struggled to find a way to ask that doesn't come off sounding harsher than I intend..)

Are you alright Peter? I don't see anything wrong here

My point is that my point got confirmed, and that there likely is more of this. Yet if so, and of the same quality, then it's mere gossip

Surely Chrestos exists only in Greek, and not in Latin.
Surely Chrestos is a positive label, referring either to good or kind people, or to useful or serviceable ones.
Yet that a slave is useful is not much of a mind-blowing experience, or is it?

How many inscriptions have we found, how many of those are dedicated to Chrestos or Chrestus?

This thread of 7 years ago has you quite involved:

"Chrestus was a common name in Rome."
https://books.google.com/books?id=lwzliMSRGGkC&pg=PA33

"ordinary name Chrestus"
https://books.google.com/books?id=JyYKIclOBzkC&pg=PA204

"Chrestus was a common name"
https://books.google.com/books?id=k8ECAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA201

"Pagans certainly had a pretty common proper name in 'Chrestus'"
https://books.google.com/books?id=qXrYAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA16

I see that asserted a lot, but I haven't seen anyone do substantial work to back up the claim.

[Giuseppe]

I see (with my satisfaction) that after three pages on this thread my point still stands: we have, on the top of two coincidences, a third coincidence that is simply too much impossible to be a true coincidence.

• The first coincidence is that between Christus and Chrestus only a vocal changes. It is a coincidence, pace Neil, totally beyond if all the slaves of the Empire were called Chrestus or not.

• The second coincidence is that among all the people, just the Jews are involved, in the role of rioters.

• The third coincidence is the occurrence of the first two coincidences.

It is the third coincidence that is too-much-impossible-to-be-a-true-coincidence.


Therefore the suetonian Chrestus is related to Christianity in one of three possible ways:

• A) Rebel messianism in Rome, and later the negative label of Christiani ended to be applied to pacifist Christians.

• B) Jewish resistance against an anti-judaic proto-anti-demiurgism (place mlinssen and Georges Ory here).

• C) Allusion to Christians tout court.

The Claudius's Epistle to Alexandrians make the hypothesis (A) the more probable.

It also explains why we don't have a Pauline epistle to Alexandrians.

[billd89]

It also explains why we don't have a Pauline epistle to Alexandrians.

But there is an Epistle to The Hebrews, who (I suppose) might have been in Alexandria, or a synagogue of its network. I've posted my own speculations on the Melchizedekian cult repeatedly, here.

[mlinssen]

But, yes, if you want to continue to ignore this and continue to grandstand about the fact that you haven't gotten any evidence regarding some other people's claims about a "slave name" of Chrestus served to you on a forum, that's ok. You can do that. It just shows poorly on you.

"You can do that. It just shows poorly on you", BECAUSE ...

Peter?

And you're the one who's making a great show out of all of this, with many posts now that basically haven't lead to anything more but you repeating what you had posted earlier and thus forcing me to do the same.
And you have now ended on a low of that, trolling me into yet another reaction that has nothing to do with my initial statement, a statement which you haven't countered or refuted

I will spell it out for you then, because you evidently are having a very bad hair day

1a. A statement needs to be backed by arguments if it wants to be more than a mere opinion.
1b. Arguments are not things that someone else should locate and identify and elucidate for the sake of the argumenter: no, that is something that the argumenter must do him- or herself

So you can throw books at me, vague inscriptions, but those aren't arguments: at the very best they are vague pointers at data which could be elevated to the level of information, after which it could start to play a role of any kind.
This can't be anything new or surprising to you, nor that it "shows poorly" on you that you seem to have forgotten the most basic role, namely that that the burden of proof lies with the person who makes a claim

You have failed to provide evidence for your claim Peter, it is as simple as that - and that shows poorly on you, but it shows even more poorly on you that you, instead, accuse me of having failed - and then even turn that into something that you can start yet another irrelevant post about

Stop trolling Peter. Concede that you haven't provided evidence for your claim, and leave it at that

[Peter Kirby]

You have failed to provide evidence for your claim Peter

Concede that you haven't provided evidence for your claim, and leave it at that

I provided a lot of evidence for my claim that it was a name that was common enough, all of which you continue to ignore.

vague inscriptions

I translated some of them and showed that it was being used as a person's name.

The name is of Greek origin (2nd century BC or earlier apparently) and enters Latin from there (around the turn of the era apparently), based on the recorded documentary examples extant. I have not looked into the literary sources yet, as this took my evening already. (And I already spent a morning wrestling with Diogenes to search Josephus in another vain quest.)

Latin Inscriptions

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 99&lang=en (dated first century AD)
C(aius) Vettius C(ai) l(ibertus) / Chrestus vivo / sibi f(ecit) et Arutiae Ti(beri) f(iliae) / [Max]imae [------?

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 74&lang=en (dated first century AD)
C(aius) Maecenas / Chrestus // Amoena / Lyri et / Soteridis

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 33&lang=en (dated first century AD)
V(ivit) / C(ai) Numis(i) |(mulieris) / l(iberti) Chresti / in fr(onte) p(edes) XIII / in ag(ro) p(edes) XII

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD004299 (dated first century AD)
C(aius) Vettius C(ai) l(ibertus) / Chrestus. Vivo* / sibi f(ecit) et Arutiae Ti(beri) f(iliae) / [Max]imae [------?
* I live. Numerous examples in Latin inscriptions.

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD001312 (dated second century AD)
D(is) M(anibus) / Coetonis marito / Hermeroti con/iugi bene / merenti fecit / Chrestus precep/tori (teacher/tutor) suo fecit / bene merenti

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD038529 (dated 171-250 AD)
Silvano / M(arcus) Chrest(us?) / pro salut(e) / M(arci) Antoni / Florentini / fili mei / v(otum) s(olvi) l(ibens) m(erito)

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD000765 (dated third century AD)
For the ghost gods [D.M.S. is traditional] / to Chrestus / most holy / husband of Corinthias, a sweet wife, who earned good merit.
D(is) M(anibus) s(acrum) / Chresto / sanctissimo / marito Corin/thias dulcis/sima uxor be/ne merenti / fecit

http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD001312
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 10&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 65&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/in ... _nr=123338
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/inschrift/HD047425
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 91&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD038613
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... t/HD037610
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 13&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 29&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 33&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 27&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 12&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 25&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 74&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 84&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 91&lang=en
http://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/ed ... 46&lang=en
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... region%3D5
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D29

Greek Inscriptions

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D15 (dated 121-111 BC)
of Mithradates Eupatoros and of the brothers of Mithradates Chrestos
Μιθραδάτου Εὐπάτορος καὶ τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ αὐτοῦ Μιθραδάτου Χρήστου

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... region%3D7 (dated 1st c. BC)
Χρήστου καὶ Ἰκαδίου [other personal names follow]

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D172 (dated mid-1st century BC)
Χρήστου.
Signature of the potter Chrestos. Clay lamp.

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D231 (dated ca. 100-50 BC)
Στρατονίκη γυνὴ Χρήστου καὶ υἱὲ Χαρίξενε, χαίρετε.
Stratonike, a wife of Chrestos. And a son of Charixene. We greet you.

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D40
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D36
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D36
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D195
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D12
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... y%3D277719
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D36
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D653
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D36
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D40

Greek Papyri

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.corn;;25 ('Account of wages for farm labor', dated 28-23 BC)
Chrestos drachmas 6
Χρήστου (δραχμαὶ) ϛ

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.thmouis;1;1 (dated AD 180-192)

http://papyri.info/hgv/15996/?q=transcr ... %E1%BF%B3) (dated June, AD 235)

http://www.papyri.info/hgv/22619 (dated AD 220-221)

http://www.papyri.info/hgv/22330 (dated 24 Dec, AD 240)

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.mich;8;521#to-app-choice01
Please give Chrestos... Please furnish to the said Chrestos
Χρήστῳ ... τῷ αὐτῷ Χρήστῳ

http://papyri.info/hgv/10401/
To Aurelius Chrestos, strategos
Αὐρηλίῳ Χρήστῳ στρατηγῷ

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/sb;12;10879
I, Herodes, through me, his son Chrestos
Ἡρώδης διʼ ἐμοῦ υἱοῦ Χρήστου

http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.laur;4;176
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/10514
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/sb;22;15786
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/32643
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.waqfa;;1
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;3;220
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;1;46
http://papyri.info/hgv/73950/
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/34340
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/97252
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;3;284
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;2;75
http://papyri.info/ddbdp/o.douch;4;367
http://www.papyri.info/hgv/131736
http://papyri.info/hgv/74032/

The word chrestos in Greek is as old as Homer. Good, useful. Adjective. It becomes a Greek name at some point. The earliest example I found so far in Greek is about two centuries before the earliest I found in Latin of Chestus (name only not adjective). I have not yet searched the literary remains. Citations above. Posted from phone.

The word chrestos in Greek is as old as Homer.

Okay this is not, necessarily, strictly true. It's not found in Homer (adjectival or not) but is at least pre-Plato (who uses the adjective).

I have not looked into the literary sources yet, as this took my evening already.

Here are some of the literary sources.

Greek Literary Sources

Plutarchus Biogr., Phil., Marius (ca. late 1st century AD)
Chapter 44, section 1, line 1

ὑπενόησε δ' οὐδείς, ἀλλ' οὕτω λαθὼν ὁ Κορνοῦτος ὑπὸ
τῶν οἰκετῶν εἰς Γαλατίαν διεκομίσθη.
Χρηστῷ δὲ καὶ Μᾶρκος Ἀντώνιος ὁ ῥήτωρ φίλῳ
χρησάμενος, ἠτύχησεν.

Pausanias Perieg., Graeciae descriptio (ca. 2nd century AD)
Book 8, chapter 27, section 11, line 6

χρόνον δὲ οὐ μετὰ
πολὺν Ἀριστόδημος Μεγαλοπολίταις ἀνέφυ τύραννος,
Φιγαλεὺς μὲν γένος καὶ υἱὸς Ἀρτύλα, ποιησαμένου δὲ
αὐτὸν Τριταίου τῶν οὐκ ἀδυνάτων ἐν Μεγάλῃ πόλει·
τούτῳ τῷ Ἀριστοδήμῳ καὶ τυραννοῦντι ἐξεγένετο ὅμως
ἐπικληθῆναι Χρηστῷ.

Claudius Aelianus Soph., Varia historia (ca. early third century AD)
Book 12, section 43, line 16

Φωκίων δὲ ὁ Χρηστὸς ἐπικληθεὶς πατρὸς
μὲν δοίδυκας ἐργαζομένου ἦν, Δημήτριον δὲ τὸν Φα-
ληρέα οἰκότριβα γενέσθαι λέγουσιν ἐκ τῆς οἰκίας τῆς
Τιμοθέου καὶ Κόνωνος.

Appianus Hist., Mithridatica (ca. 2nd century AD)
Section 32, line 4

ὃ δὲ τοῦτο μὲν ἤνεγκε, Νικομήδει
δὲ τῷ Νικομήδους τοῦ Προυσίου, Βιθυνίας ὡς πατρῴας
ὑπὸ Ῥωμαίων ἀποδειχθέντι βασιλεύειν, Σωκράτη τὸν
ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ Νικομήδους, ὅτῳ Χρηστὸς ἐπώνυμον ἦν,
μετὰ στρατιᾶς <ἐπ>έπεμψε· καὶ τὴν Βιθυνῶν ἀρχὴν ὁ
Σωκράτης ἐς αὑτὸν περιέσπασε.

Memnon Hist., Fragmenta (ca. 1st or 2nd century AD)
Fragment 4, line 69

(9) Τεκνωσάμενος δὲ γʹ παῖδας ἐκ τῆς Ἀμά-
στριος, Κλέαρχον, Ὀξάθρην καὶ θυγατέρα ὁμώνυμον τῇ
μητρὶ, μέλλων τελευτᾶν ταύτην τε τῶν ὅλων δέσποιναν
καταλιμπάνει καὶ τῶν παίδων κομιδῆ νηπίων ὄντων σύν
τισιν ἑτέροις ἐπίτροπον, βιοὺς μὲν ἔτη εʹ καὶ νʹ, ὧν ἐπὶ
ἀρχῆ λʹ ἐγνωρίζετο, πραότατος ἐν αὐτῇ, ὡς εἴρηται,
γεγονὼς καὶ τὸ Χρηστὸς ἐπίκλησιν ἐκ τῶν ἠθῶν ἐνεγ-
κάμενος, καὶ πολὺν πόθον τοῖς ὑπὸ χεῖρα καὶ πένθος
λιπών.

Athanasius Theol., Apologia contra Arianos sive Apologia secunda (ca. 4th century AD)
Chapter 7, section 2, line 2

οἴδατε γὰρ ἀκριβῶς, ὅτι Ἀμφίων μὲν ἐν Νικο-
μηδείᾳ, Χρηστὸς δὲ ἐν Νικαίᾳ κατεστάθησαν ἀντ' αὐτῶν διὰ τὴν οἰκείαν ἀσέβειαν καὶ
τὴν πρὸς τοὺς Ἀρειομανίτας κοινωνίαν τοὺς ἀπὸ τῆς συνόδου τῆς οἰκουμενικῆς ἀποδοκι-
μασθέντας.

Latin Literary Sources

L. Iunius Moderatus Columella. De Re Rustica (ca. mid first century AD)
book 1, chapter 1, section 8, line 5

Athenae uero scriptorum frequen-
tiam pepererunt, e qua probatissimi auctores Chaereas,
Aristandros, Amphilochus, Euphronius, Chrestus – Euphro-
nius non, ut multi putant, Amphipolites, qui et ipse lauda-
bilis habetur agricola, sed indigena soli Attici.

Pompeius Trogus. Historiae Philippicae (ca. 2nd century AD or later)
book 38, fragment 152, line 64

Non
regem Bithyniae Chreston, in quem senatus arma decreverat,
a se in gratiam illorum occisum?

Granius Licinianus. Annales (ca. second century AD)
book 35, sentence 91, line 1

Exceptus a rege munifice, Chrestus etiam quasi meliore nomine ab
eodem voca<tus>, Romam ad regnum expetendum frustra profectus
<Cyz>icum redit.

C. Suetonius Tranquillus. De Vita Caesarum (ca. early second century AD)
life Cl, chapter 25, section 4, line 2

Iudaeos impul-
sore Chresto assidue tumultuantis Roma expulit.

you repeating what you had posted earlier and thus forcing me to do the same

You can stop replying at any time. I'll stop replying too if you don't say more falsehoods about me.

[mlinssen]

...

Dear Peter, I'll make a long story short

"Common slave name" was the assertion, against which I objected

You have thrown a few dozen things over the fence, fine. Inscriptions are notoriously cryptic, as they always assume context, and chisel away just a few letters departing from that PoV

Have you provided evidence, information or even data on slave names?
I'd say "No"

[Peter Kirby]

...

Dear Peter, I'll make a long story short

"Common slave name" was the assertion, against which I objected

You have thrown a few dozen things over the fence, fine. Inscriptions are notoriously cryptic, as they always assume context, and chisel away just a few letters departing from that PoV

Have you provided evidence, information or even data on slave names?
I'd say "No"

I agree with you there.

If I find anything concrete for the "slave name" part, I will say so. But that was not my claim.

[neilgodfrey]

Fwiw, I paste here a passage in an article I am currently reading to grapple with an entirely different question from the Jews of the Claudian era -- but the following passage reminded me of this thread:

The reference to the instigation of Chrestus by Suetonius15 is (hesitantly) taken by Barclay as a reference to “perhaps only or especially Christian Jews”.16 The obstacles are that Chrestus is a widely attested name for freedmen or freed foreigners from the east, yet never attested of a Jew. Also, the reference implies that Chrestus would have been present in Rome at the time. Thirdly, Suetonius is known to have called the Christians by their proper name at other times (Nero 16.2). I tend to side with Gruen that the identification of Chrestus with Christ is “an uphill battle, better given up.”17 But the assertion that there were Christbelieving Jews among those expelled is not affected by this (Acts 18:2). It simply shows that Roman authorities at this time did not differentiate between Christ-believing Jews and Jews in general. A decade or so later, Nero’s brutal persecution of Christians subsequent to the great fire in Rome appears not to have affected the Jews as a community.18 The shift of perception that seems to underlie these measures may indicate that in Rome the Christ-believers were no longer considered part of synagogue communities.

15 Suetonius, Claudius 25.4: “Iudaeos impulsore Chresto assidue tumultuantis Roma expulit.”

16 Barclay, Diaspora, 305. The original suggestion goes back to the fifteenth century and has been reiterated numerous times since (see Boterman, Judenedikt, 72–85).

17 Gruen, Diaspora, 39. 18 Barclay, Diaspora, 306–8, Leon, Jews, 36, Levinskaya, Acts, 181.

• Mitternacht, Dieter. “Current Views on the Synagogue of Ostia Antica and the Jews of Rome and Ostia.” Accessed June 9, 2023. https://www.academia.edu/28608809/Curre ... _and_ostia.

As I read further, we have the suggestion that the Jews expelled from Rome may have moved to Ostia .....

Since the expulsion of Jews from Rome under Claudius happened not long before the erection of the synagogue building in the Quarter outside the Porta Marina, Hedner Zetterholm ponders the idea that it may have been Jews expelled from Rome that moved to Ostia and soon thereafter built for themselves a house of worship close to the sea.25

25 Hedner Zetterholm, “Jewish Communities,” 134.

Is such a move likely to have been tolerated if those expelled espoused a cult that was not welcome by Roman authorities?

And reading on even further......

Knowing that there were Christ-believers among the Jews expelled, we may speculate that some also were among the refugees that came to Ostia. These refugees had many good reasons to accept the recognized Jewish boundaries and not to cause any disorder. For quite some time, they may have refrained from reaching out to Gentiles, which in turn may explain, partly at least, the lack of evidence of Christian presence in Ostia for so many decades, even though Christianity was on the rise everywhere else, so it seems. Maybe the Jewish Christ-believers faired well within a synagogue community that was culturally and economically well situated and may have been willing to accept confessions of faith in Jesus Messiah as one variety of Jewishness. At any rate, the earliest signs of a Christian presence are a few inscriptions that can be dated to the third century130 and a tradition mentioned in sources from around 700 C.E. that St. Aurea, the most famous but also the earliest known Christian martyr of Ostia was killed under Claudius Gothicus (268–270).

130 It must be remembered that no Jewish or Christian archeological traces have been discovered prior to the catacombs—none of which dates earlier than 200 C.E.—neither in Rome nor in Ostia.

[neilgodfrey]

• Neil has explained me that the mere occurrence of Chrestus is a coincidence (a mere name for slaves);

• Neil has explained me that the mere occurrence of Jewish rioters expelled by Claudius is a coincidence (a mere racial riot).

• But how do you explain the presence, in the same phrase, of Chrestus and Jewish rioters? A mere coincidence it also?

The combination of two coincidences is not more a coincidence.

Expecting the Neil's answer to my point...

Hi Giuseppe -- I have just come across a new set of arguments (or a new combination of some older arguments) that favour your case and go against the one I made. I'd like to bury the evidence and never let anyone see it but my then I will be plagued by the Furies to my grave, so here it is. It is from a classicist, John Moles, whose work I have addressed positively before:

The wording seems to make ‘Chrestus’ both alive and present in Rome at the time. How, then, could ‘Chresto’ be Jesus? This difficulty does not rule out the interpretation, for the simple reason that all interpretations of the passage encounter difficulties. The difficulty can be explained in various ways: Suetonius may be writing carelessly (always possible), or he may be ignorant of basic facts about Jesus (not impossible but not very likely), or he may not realise that this ‘Chrestus’ is Jesus, if, say, he is working from a police report; it is often observed that the item belongs within a series of what look like ‘police measures’, and from a contemporary Roman perspective Christian talk of the risen Jesus might naturally imply ‘life’ in the normal sense of the term. So Luke makes the Roman governor Festus tell Agrippa and Berenice that the chief priests and elders ‘had certain enquiries ... with regard to [Paul] concerning ... a certain Jesus who was dead but whom Paul asserted to live’ (Acts 25.19).

Like most scholars who have considered the problem, I think ‘Chresto’ is Jesus, and for the following reasons:

(a)  ‘Chresto’ certainly can represent ‘Christo’ (the form actually here read by the fifth-century Christian Orosius, 7.6.15);

(b) the availability, only shortly afterwards, in Neronian Rome, of the ‘e’ form of ‘Christian’ is attested by Tacitus;

(c) the form ‘Chrestiani’ in Tacitus must imply a prior ‘Chrestus’ (see below);

(d) equally, here, a political agitator such as Suetonius represents ‘Chrestus’ as being would certainly have followers, who would naturally be called ‘Chrestiani’;

(e) public dissension between Jews and ‘Christians’ in Rome (as in other places) is attested at the right general period both by Paul and by Acts;

(f) the Jews with whom Paul stayed in Corinth and who had fallen under this decree seem already to be Christian (Acts 18.2, 18, 26);

(g) ‘the Jews in general in Rome’ did not ‘constantly riot’ and it is completely implausible to suppose that Claudius would attempt a mass expulsion of Jews from Rome or that Suetonius would so represent him, hence Suetonius is talking about a particular category of Jews who constantly rioted, and logic almost seems to demand explanation of why they did so, hence ‘at the instigation of Chrestus’;

(h) the interlocking word order also points strongly against taking the latter phrase with the main verb;

and (i) in both the local and temporal contexts, it seems highly implausible to hypothesise a ‘Chrestus’ other than Jesus as the catalyst of such constant inter-Jewish rioting.

• “What’s in a Name? Χριστός/Χρηστός and Χριστιανοί/Χρηστιανοί in the First Century AD.” In The Collected Papers of J. L. Moles - Volume 1, 937–79. Brill, 2023. https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004538719_033. pp 947f

- my formatting