Does the Earliest Gospel require a cult of a god Jesus?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
User avatar
Peter Kirby
Site Admin
Posts: 7631
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Santa Clara
Contact:

Re: Does the Earliest Gospel require a cult of a god Jesus?

Post by Peter Kirby »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 12:33 pm Surely I feel a sense of déjà-vu when I compare the two passages:

1 Corinthians 7:29-31: Luke 6:21

29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.


Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.


There seems to be a relationship between things in the letters of Paul (not attributed to Jesus usually) and things in the gospels.

The example of "Eugnostos the Blessed" -> "Sophia of Jesus Christ" shows that teaching can easily be put in the mouth of Jesus later.
User avatar
Peter Kirby
Site Admin
Posts: 7631
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Santa Clara
Contact:

Re: Does the Earliest Gospel require a cult of a god Jesus?

Post by Peter Kirby »

Everything the letter of Paul says here in 1 Corinthians 7:29-31 is well-paralleled in Stoicism, especially the admonition against both "those who mourn" and "those who are happy," which shows that the point is not turning weeping into laughter but rather maintaining an indifference to the world that is passing away.

What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short You live as if you were destined to live forever, no thought of your frailty ever enters your head, of how much time has already gone by you take no heed. - Seneca
From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not If you kiss your child, or your wife, say to yourself that it is a human being that you are kissing; and then you will not be disturbed if either of them dies. - Epictetus
those who mourn, as if they did not When you see anyone weeping for grief, either that his son has gone abroad or that he has suffered in his affairs, take care not to be overcome by the apparent evil. - Epictetus
those who are happy, as if they were not A man should so live that his happiness shall depend as little as possible on external things. - Epictetus
those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep If you are fond of a jug, say, ‘It is a jug that I am fond of’; then, if it is broken, you will not be disturbed. - Epictetus
those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them Remember that you ought to behave in life as you would at a banquet. As something is being passed around it comes to you; stretch out your hand and take a portion of it politely. . . Or it has not come to you yet; do not project your desire to meet it, but wait until it comes in front of you. - Epictetus
For this world in its present form is passing away At the conflagration no evil at all remains, but the whole is then prudent and wise - Plutarch [not a Stoic but the conflagration is also a Stoic idea]

User avatar
Peter Kirby
Site Admin
Posts: 7631
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Santa Clara
Contact:

Re: Does the Earliest Gospel require a cult of a god Jesus?

Post by Peter Kirby »

It is worth saying another word of appreciation here for Neil Godfrey's effort to make Bruno Bauer accessible in English.

I tried to do something similar in 2015 here - https://peterkirby.com/glossen-im-romerbrief.html - with a much shorter text, with a different German (Bultmann), and it was simply arduous. I hope the tools at least have improved.
Post Reply