reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
StephenGoranson
Posts: 1900
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:10 am

Re: reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Post by StephenGoranson »

The Oxyrhynchus Papyri vol. LXXXVII
P.J. Parsons (Volume Editor), N. Gonis (Volume Editor)
Description
This volume includes editions of fifty-eight papyri and one text on parchment. Among the theological texts, three are of exceptional interest. 5575 is an early copy of sayings of Jesus corresponding in part to the canonical gospels of Matthew and Luke and in part to the apocryphal gospel of Thomas. Jesus is also the speaker in 5576 and apparently in 5577, where Mary is addressed. Both pieces may be loosely called 'Gnostic'; the latter appears to be Valentinian. Of the new literary items, the most extensive is 5584, a collection of short biographies of eminent Romans, written a century earlier than Plutarch. Plutarch's own Homeric Studies, now mostly lost, may be recognized in 5585. Early Greek philosophy is represented by 5583, a full column of what appears to be Antiphon's On Truth. The extant literary texts are fragments of two papyrological rarities, the historical work of Aristodemus (5586–7) and the astrological poetry ascribed to Manetho (5588–90). The documentary section illustrates social and economic realities of late antique estates, mostly that of the Apions; there is new evidence on the handling of wine distributions, on the pricing of equipment and materials, and on the more mundane relations of the Apion estate to monasteries.

Product details
Published 31 Aug 2023
Format Hardback
Edition 1st
Extent 186
ISBN 9780856982521
Imprint Egypt Exploration Society
Illustrations 13 bw illus
Dimensions 254 x 190 mm
Series Graeco-Roman Memoirs
Publisher The Egypt Exploration Society
User avatar
Secret Alias
Posts: 17393
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Post by Secret Alias »

Extrem wichtig. Ich danke Ihnen für das Teilen.
User avatar
Lev
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:12 am
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Post by Lev »

This looks very interesting.
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:19 pm
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Contact:

Re: reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

Funny. You can read some "and" and some "the". Also, fragments of 30-40 words that do not form a coherent sentence. I could not discover "Jesus".

From this, NT scholars then make sensational news about an alleged Jesus saying that supposedly has parallels to Matthew, Luke, Thomas and Justin.

Those little rascals! :D
User avatar
Ken Olson
Posts: 1060
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 9:26 am

Re: reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Post by Ken Olson »

Here's how Fish, Wallace and Holmes reconstruct it:

P. Oxy. 5575-  Sayings of Jesus - Fish-Wallace-Holmes 2023.png
P. Oxy. 5575- Sayings of Jesus - Fish-Wallace-Holmes 2023.png (127.89 KiB) Viewed 6937 times

And they translate it:

‘. . . he died (?). you: [do not] worry [about your life,] what you will eat, [or] about your
body, what [you will wear.] For I tell you: [unless] you fast [from the world,] you will never $nd [the
Kingdom,] and unless you . . . the world, you [will never . . .] the Father . . . the birds, how . . . and [your
(?)] heavenly Father [feeds them (?).] You [also] therefore . . . [Consider the lilies,] how they grow . . .
Solomon . . . in [his] glory . . . [if ] the Father [clothes] grass which dries up and is thrown into the oven,
[he will clothe (?)] you . . . You [also (?)] therefore . . . for [your] Father [knows] . . . you need. [Instead
(?)] seek [his kingdom (?), and all these things (?)] will be given [to you (?)] as well.’



Best,

Ken
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:19 pm
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Contact:

Re: reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

Ken Olson wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:33 am Here's how Fish, Wallace and Holmes reconstruct it:
Thanks Ken!
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:19 pm
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Contact:

Re: reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

Ken Olson wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:33 am Here's how Fish, Wallace and Holmes reconstruct it:
That's some damn good work! How the reconstructed the last lines out of eight and a half letters !!! (from Luke 13:31 with the πάντα from Matthew 6:33) And sounds quite reasonable!
ζητεῖτε τὴν βασιλείαν αὐτο, καὶ ταῦτα πάντα προστεθήσεται

User avatar
Secret Alias
Posts: 17393
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: reported: "Scholars Publish New Papyrus With Early Sayings of Jesus"

Post by Secret Alias »

Dan Wallace on the new fragment (Facebook):

Early papyrus with text from Matthew, Luke, AND the Gospel of Thomas now made public!
This fragment was published in the latest volume of the Oxyrhynchus Papyri (volume LXXXVII), 31 Aug 2023. It's the first entry in this volume, P.Oxy. 5575. It's been a long time coming. Over a decade ago, 8 of my students worked with me for several months, deciphering the fragment, determining its source(s), and offering a preliminary dating. Rory Crowley discovered that part of this papyrus had material that looked to be from the Gospel of Thomas.
We took high-resolution digital photographs of POxy 5575. Jeff Fish (Baylor University) and Mike Holmes (Bethel University, Museum of the Bible) took over the editing after I submitted preliminary work in 2015.
All of us independently dated the MS to late second or perhaps early third century, making it the oldest manuscript with text from Matt 6 (Sermon on the Mount). Significantly, the Institute for New Testament Textual Research (INTF) in Münster, Germany, assigns only a handful of New Testament papyri to the second or second/third centuries. Although this is not technically a NT papyrus (it's syncretistic, including portions from Matt 6, Luke 12, Thomas 27, and perhaps one or two others), that it includes portions from these books at such an early date is astounding.
It also is now the oldest extant fragment from the Gospel of Thomas. The very first papyrus that was published in the Oxyrhynchus volumes, P.Oxy. 1, was from an "Unknown Gospel," later known to be from the Gospel of Thomas. In a later volume, two other Greek fragments from Thomas were published (P.Oxy. 654, 655). Then, in the 1940s, the 4th century Nag Hammadi codices were discovered, which included the Gospel of Thomas en toto, a work in Coptic. One other fragment from Thomas has been published, which comes to six total. As far as I know, P.Oxy 5575 is the only one that is syncretistic. How these various works were put together--oral tradition, pre-written source for Gospel of Thomas, memory, or?, and what this might tell us about an early Christian community are intriguing questions which will no doubt spawn a myriad of speculations.
Let the fun begin!
Post Reply