No, we are not. It is an analogy.Secret Alias wrote:Just like there are things that you made clear annoy you about me this seems to be to be a lazy, bullshit statement on your part that you know has no place in a discussion about Marcion:
This is so utterly pointless. Are we discussing the Christians who thought this?After all, other Christians thought that, whenever Paul used the words "according to my gospel", he meant the gospel of Luke; their attribution of authorship to Paul was indirect at best, mediated through Luke.
No. Rather, so that I can see your argument for it.I mean, does any of this seem likely attributable to the Marcionites? So why bring it up? Just to oppose what I say for the sake of opposing it?
This is one of those cases in which I would like to be shown that Marcionites attributed the penning of the Marcionite gospel (directly) to Paul. That would be a step forward in my/our understanding. But I do not want to take that step without evidence, or based upon fuzzy feelings about how Marcionites must have worked.
The example of "my gospel" meaning Luke to various patristic authors is a caution to me. A statement from them about Paul which is as undetailed as the statementy by Origen about Marcion would tend to lead me to believe that they, too, were attributing a written gospel directly to Paul. And, of course, I would be wrong. I am also curious, granting your argument as valid, how many of the Marcionites interpreted the phrase in this way, and how soon.
My question to you was a challenge. Not a "this is silly" challenge; not a "no way in the world" challenge; but a real, good faith "show me" challenge. An invitation to discuss. No more, no less.
This is a good start. I can see your point. I am persuadable on this. I just wish I did not have to wade through the rants to get there. I am accustomed to digging through garbage for nuggets of understanding, but you often wrap yours in venom.There is only answer - Origen is saying that the Marcionites thought they had a first century gospel written by Paul by his own testimony. .... It's important to make plain how the Marcionites evidently read the passage. Why? Because the plain interpretation of a passage is usually the right one. 'My' means 'mine.'