Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

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stephan happy huller
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by stephan happy huller »

No one takes Massey seriously any more except cranks. You need the name Osiris to pass through Hebrew to get the 'l' in Lazarus. The rest however can't work. Find me an authority in Hebrew who thinks it might work. It can't.
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by stephan happy huller »

אלעזר = Ελεάζαρός

Osiris in Greek = Ὄσιρις

These are two different words. They don't sound alike.
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by GakuseiDon »

So, is "Lazarus" the same name as "Eleazar"? According to Wiki, the name Lazarus is "Latinised from the Hebrew: אלעזר, Elʿāzār, Eleazar—'God is my help'". If so, there were other figures called "Eleazar" in the OT, but they don't appear to be the representation of Osiris or Horus. That weakens the association between Lazarus and Osiris, to my mind.
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by stephan happy huller »

Copy and paste this אלעזר into Google Translate 'Hebrew' and set the translation for 'Greek' and see what you get.
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by GakuseiDon »

Hebrew to English gives "Lazarus". Hebrew to (modern) Greek gives "Λάζαρος". Not sure what that shows?
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by stephan happy huller »

I don't understand why the followers of Acharya S aren't troubled by this original statement by Robert Tulip in this thread:
one of the strongest examples of pagan parallels is the derivation of the Lazarus story from Osiris
and then no attempt is made to refute the evidence that the names can't be related to one another. This isn't an attempt to 'belittle' people but ideas. These ideas don't work. If this is 'one of the strongest examples' of evidence which show that the gospel - the earliest piece of evidence from Christianity - was developed from paganism shouldn't these people rethink this theory? But you know that they will continue to cite this alleged 'Lazarus/Osiris' parallel ad nauseum even though they can't defend the idea in front of a critical audience. :tombstone:
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by Maximos »

stephan happy huller wrote:I don't understand why the followers of Acharya S aren't troubled by this original statement by Robert Tulip in this thread:
one of the strongest examples of pagan parallels is the derivation of the Lazarus story from Osiris
and then no attempt is made to refute the evidence that the names can't be related to one another. This isn't an attempt to 'belittle' people but ideas. These ideas don't work. If this is 'one of the strongest examples' of evidence which show that the gospel - the earliest piece of evidence from Christianity - was developed from paganism shouldn't these people rethink this theory? But you know that they will continue to cite this alleged 'Lazarus/Osiris' parallel ad nauseum even though they can't defend the idea in front of a critical audience. :tombstone:
Because Acharya got her info from highly respected Egyptologists. You on the other hand only offer knee-jerk reactions.
The Greek name “Lazarus” or “Lazaros” equals “Eleazar” in Hebrew and, per Strong’s [Concordance] (G2976), means “whom God helps.” It is a strange coincidence firstly that the person whom Jesus resurrects happens to be named “whom God helps,” and secondly that “Eleazar”—or, breaking down its original components in Hebrew, El-Azar—closely resembles a combination of the Semitic word for God, “El,” with the Egyptian name for Osiris, “Ausar.” Interestingly, there exists an ancient Phoenician inscription called “the Carpentras” that does indeed identify Osiris with the Semitic god “El” or “Elohim,” calling him “Osiris-Eloh.”

In addition, the word el or al in Arabic means “the”; hence, “El-Azar-us” would be equivalent to “the Osiris,” which is in fact the frequent name of the deceased yearning to be resurrected. Verifying this fact, the village in Judea where the Lazarus miracle supposedly took place, Bethany, today is called in Arabic “El Azarieh.”

- Christ in Egypt 304
Is Lazarus a remake of Osiris?
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by Bernard Muller »

The resurrection of Lazarus in gJohn is obviously a made up story and it does not matter from where the author of the gospel got his inspiration (if he ever got it from outside texts or foreign beliefs).
The story of Lazarus serves many purposes in gJohn and every parts seem concocted and made in order to fulfill them.
- Jesus can resurrect a dead person (dead for at least three days) (Jn 11:4,6,17,25,39,44) and is not only a healer of sick people (Jn 11:21,32). Before three days would be only a revival (as in Lk 7:11-17) ("John" had to do better that that!).
- Thomas not afraid of dying: the latter (good) members of the Ebionistic Thomassan sect believed they would not die (ref: Jn 11:16, gThomas). Other Christians believed that at the end of the 1st century.
- Beliefs by contemporaries in the resurrections in the last day (Jn 11:24) and Jesus is Christ & Son of God (Jn11:27).
- Jesus could weep and show human emotion & compassion & love (Jn 11:35-36).
- The resurrection was widely witnessed and made everybody believe in Jesus as divine (Jn 11:45-48).
- That precipitate the desire by the Jewish elite to have Jesus killed (Jn 11: 49-53) rather than disturbances in the temple (which would explain Jesus' demise as a vulgar trouble maker) (ref: gMark).

The name Lazarus is obviously imported from gLuke, as also the two sisters, Martha & Mary.

I do not see why the author had to know about some stuff from Egyptian mythology (and from different sources at that) in order to create his multipurpose story.

Cordially, Bernard
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by stephan happy huller »

The Greek name “Lazarus” or “Lazaros” equals “Eleazar” in Hebrew and, per Strong’s [Concordance] (G2976), means “whom God helps.” It is a strange coincidence firstly that the person whom Jesus resurrects happens to be named “whom God helps,” and secondly that “Eleazar”—or, breaking down its original components in Hebrew, El-Azar—closely resembles a combination of the Semitic word for God, “El,” with the Egyptian name for Osiris, “Ausar.” Interestingly, there exists an ancient Phoenician inscription called “the Carpentras” that does indeed identify Osiris with the Semitic god “El” or “Elohim,” calling him “Osiris-Eloh.”
I have dealt with this earlier. It is complete nonsense. I accept that Lazarus is a form of a Hebrew name but the Hebrew name is certainly NOT developed from Osiris. Even the manner that this argument is developed is borderline infantile. I suspect that this lady read somewhere the actual origin of the name Lazarus. She does not read or speak Hebrew so she couldn't have known where and how this etymology developed. As I said the leap from this information - for which she has no background - to the next sentence only proves she's worse than a mere amateur - she's an amateur pretending to be an authority.
in Hebrew, El-Azar—closely resembles a combination of the Semitic word for God, “El,” with the Egyptian name for Osiris, “Ausar.”
If you can find even one Hebrew scholar who would go along with this bit of perversity - that אלעזר "closely resembles a combination of the Semitic word for God, “El,” with the Egyptian name for Osiris, “Ausar" - if you can find even one expert in Biblical Hebrew or Palestinian Aramaic who would come to this conclusion I will concede defeat. I have demonstrated why this isn't true. I've even provided the spelling of this word and that phrase. The fact that you persist demonstrates (a) you don't know what you are talking about (b) you don't care to learn the truth.

Her particular phrasing - i.e. that it "closely resembles a combination of the Semitic word for God, “El,” with the Egyptian name for Osiris, “Ausar" - is awkward. Who speaks about "a combination" of the "Semitic" word and an Egyptian word? This is how she looks at the name - i.e. in terms of wild speculative possibilities - but an actual authority would attempt to provide a likely language that אלעזר = אוסרי. The only language that any of this would make sense would be Palestinian Aramaic. So why doesn't she make the argument for this outlandish claim? Because she can't. She doesn't have the language skills. My guess would be that she doesn't even know how to say 'the god Osiris' in Aramaic. As such given her complete ignorance it is entirely possible that אלעזר 'resembles' אוסרי. Sure why not. If I've never eaten Chinese food I might be justified in assuming that it 'resembles' Greek food at least once you've taken into account that I know absolutely nothing about Chinese food. But the annoying thing is that this lady and her followers have no shame saying אלעזר = אוסרי even though their source of information has no authority to make that pronouncement.

The ultimate sign of her lack of authority is what follows:
In addition, the word el or al in Arabic means “the”; hence, “El-Azar-us” would be equivalent to “the Osiris,” which is in fact the frequent name of the deceased yearning to be resurrected. Verifying this fact, the village in Judea where the Lazarus miracle supposedly took place, Bethany, today is called in Arabic “El Azarieh.”
This is borderline retarded. Who fucking cares what any of this could mean in Arabic? Now she's an expert in Arabic? Why then is she making arguments in languages she doesn't understand? Doesn't it matter? Elle means 'she' in French. Is that pertinent to the discussion too? It's also the name of a woman's magazine. Maybe Eleazar means 'Osiris [the] woman's magazine.' The idea that Arabic might hold the key to understand the figure of Lazarus is just so fucking outlandish that it already convinces me this book isn't worth reading.
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Re: Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Post by stephan happy huller »

Because Acharya got her info from highly respected Egyptologists. You on the other hand only offer knee-jerk reactions.
What language are you arguing אלעזר = אוסרי? Do you even know? Does it even matter to you? Or are you just happy parroting a claim you don't even understand.
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