John2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:51 pm
I don't follow your logic. I can't isolate 10:19 from the rest of Mark, and in the rest of Mark Jesus observes the Sabbath and festivals (and wears fringes all the while which serve to remind Jews to observe all of the Torah).
your 'logic' fails to consider that Mark is explicit in 10:19 about the first commandments, while he is implicit in the other cases where there is the mention of the sabbath. The reason of this elusiveness is that Mark was obliged to do so because Hadrian had banned the observance of the Sabbath.
I don't see any elusiveness about the Sabbath in Mark. I think Jesus just gives some examples of commandments in various situations and isn't being "elusive" about the Sabbath any more than he is about all the other commandments he doesn't mention in those cases.
John2 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:18 pm isn't being "elusive" about the Sabbath any more than he is about all the other commandments he doesn't mention in those cases.
"you shall not commit adultery" is mentioned in Mark 10:19 while the observance of the Sabbath is not mentioned. Very unexpected. Unless "Mark" (author) was obliged to do so for diplomatic reasons.
Apologists like JohnT fail malevolently to see that the insertion of the commandments is antimarcionist interpolation, tailored to identify illogically the Father with the god of the Old Testament. Others recognize the judaization that has been going on in the history of the evolution from pre-Christian gnosticism to Catholic Christianity.
John2 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:18 pm isn't being "elusive" about the Sabbath any more than he is about all the other commandments he doesn't mention in those cases.
"you shall not commit adultery" is mentioned in Mark 10:19 while the observance of the Sabbath is not mentioned. Very unexpected. Unless "Mark" (author) was obliged to do so for diplomatic reasons.
But why wasn't Mark similarly "elusive" the ten or so times that he does mention the Sabbath?
Jesus doesn't mention the commandment to wear fringes in 10:19 either (or anywhere else), for example, but we know from other verses that he wore them. Likewise, we know from other verses that Jesus and his followers observed the Sabbath.
John2 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:18 pm isn't being "elusive" about the Sabbath any more than he is about all the other commandments he doesn't mention in those cases.
"you shall not commit adultery" is mentioned in Mark 10:19 while the observance of the Sabbath is not mentioned. Very unexpected. Unless "Mark" (author) was obliged to do so for diplomatic reasons.
But why wasn't Mark similarly "elusive" the ten or so times that he does mention the Sabbath?
Jesus doesn't mention the commandment to wear fringes in 10:19 either (or anywhere else), for example, but we know from other verses that he wore them. Likewise, we know from other verses that Jesus and his followers observed the Sabbath.
the 10 commandments are by definition explicit commandments. Mark's failure to mention one of them requires an explanation.
John2 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:18 pm isn't being "elusive" about the Sabbath any more than he is about all the other commandments he doesn't mention in those cases.
"you shall not commit adultery" is mentioned in Mark 10:19 while the observance of the Sabbath is not mentioned. Very unexpected. Unless "Mark" (author) was obliged to do so for diplomatic reasons.
But why wasn't Mark similarly "elusive" the ten or so times that he does mention the Sabbath?
Jesus doesn't mention the commandment to wear fringes in 10:19 either (or anywhere else), for example, but we know from other verses that he wore them. Likewise, we know from other verses that Jesus and his followers observed the Sabbath.
the 10 commandments are by definition explicit commandments. Mark's failure to mention one of them requires an explanation.
I think Jesus is just giving some examples from the Torah (in this case six of the Ten Commandments) and Mark isn't "failing" to do anything here.
John2 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 3:20 pm Mark isn't "failing" to do anything here.
put it in this way: isn't the expression "the son of man is master of the sabbath" sufficient to raise the suspicion, even only the suspicion, that the observance of the sabbath is put in discussion? What better occasion than one when the commandment could be mentioned, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy", to exorcize the suspicion once for all?
Well: a missed occasion is what we see. And this is strange (=unexpected, = improbable).
Unless the Mark's fear of Hadrian was too much great.
