Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Secret Alias wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:54 pm What do I have to do cite the fucking chapters and go verse by verse. Ok.

Ah, the good old SA is back again in all his true colours. (So manly, so masculine, swoon). No, Stephan, you have to stop being a hypocrite and do what you said this forum was set up to do: avoid argument by citation and name, rank etc

Oh, I forgot. You said you have nothing against hypocrisy. As you were. Carry on.

But how obvious is the answer. The fucking text LITERALLY has Abraham walking over to "the house of God" at Gerizim. Do people read? Have people after curled up with the Book of Genesis and actually read the material?

It's like questioning the sky is blue. "How do you know the sky is blue"? Ummm look out your fucking window? "Oh but where is there a paper which references the blueness of the sky?"

Chapter 12 is about Abraham setting up an altar next to the House of God at Gerizim and then things go on until his grandson Joseph's bones are brought back to the same place and then Joshua ultimately establishes "Israel" there. The Jews don't have a rival place. The Samaritans can take you to the place everyone is buried. It's only option. There are no rival "options." End of story.

Marqe has Moses reference this place as

the House of God, which I have desired to climb before my death, behold, Joshua will lead you towards it. Eleazar the priest will minister upon it and make offerings. All this will stray through your own hand, and Favor will be ..

and similarly

They (the angels) came to meet Moses the prophet and saluted him, for he is entrusted with the House of God, as He said about him: He is entrusted throughout My house (Num. 12:7). Entrusted with all he has seen, entrusted with all he has heard,

and again

The House of God (Gen. 28:17), for the holy angels never stop ascending and descending on it, saying praises to God – O Lord, (with) Your hands establish it. The Lord will reign for ever and beyond.

Remember Jesus is similarly described in John. And again

Similarly, the body of Adam, the choicest of all creature(s), was only taken from what preceded him: the Good Mountain, the choicest of all the mountains. At the beginning of “In the beginning” [i.e., in the seven days of creation] in the Creator raised it up. Indeed, Jacob too taught its holiness, as our Master taught the holiness of the Sabbath (saying): This is none other than the house of God

Secret Alias wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:03 pm But how obvious is the answer. The fucking text LITERALLY has Abraham walking over to "the house of God" at Gerizim. Do people read? Have people after curled up with the Book of Genesis and actually read the material?

It's like the sky is blue.

All you have done in this thread is demonstrate that you are incapable of comprehending another point of view even when it is spelled out with point by point evidence in its defence. All you can do in rebuttal is get a little emotional and declare your hobby horse ad hoc selections of half-suggestions are the sum total of the entire corpus of relevant direct explicit evidence.

So what is your agenda re the Samaritans? Why won't you tell us?

What other "point of view" is there? Are you presenting an interpretation of the material just cited? Where did Abraham set up the altar besides the place God lived at (i.e. his house) Gerizim. Do you have an alternative hypothesis? Or are you just wasting my time?

It's fucking explicit. Like arguing if water is wet. The fact you haven't considered it before doesn't mean it's not obvious. It's fucking obvious and self-evident if you bothered to just read the text.

He took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had accumulated and the people they had acquired in Harran, and they set out for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there. Abram traveled through the land as far as the site of the great tree of Moreh at Shechem. At that time the Canaanites were in the land. 7 The Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built an altar there to the Lord, who had appeared to him. 8 From there he went on toward the hills east of God' house and pitched his tent, with God's house on the west and Ai on the east. There he built an altar to the Lord and called on the name of the Lord.

This requires scholarly citation? This requires discussion? Debate? Analysis? Gerizim is the place where God lives. The Israelite altar which is confirmed and established supposedly forever in the Book of Joshua is at Gerizim. It's fucking in black and white. Are there other Shechems? I even Googled looking for a "Shechem USA." None. So what are the alternatives?

Secret Alias wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:14 pm What other "point of view" is there? Are you presenting an interpretation of the material just cited? Where did Abraham set up the altar besides the place God lived at (i.e. his house) Gerizim. Do you have an alternative hypothesis? Or are you just wasting my time?

It's fucking explicit. Like arguing if water is wet. The fact you haven't considered it before doesn't mean it's not obvious. It's fucking obvious and self-evident if you bothered to just read the text.

RG wrote:

You have no need to resort to insult. So up your game, okay? Then I will be happy to discuss the Samaritans as Pentateuchal authors. Fair enough?

SA replied:

Fine. I agree. I kind of admire you.

When someone has to resort to swearing to try to argue that only they can see the sky is blue and everyone else is blind, then I suspect that the reality is that the sky is overcast or nighttime and anything but blue.

So what is your agenda?

But the text says where the altar is established, where the house of God is, and the same place is repeated throughout the Hexateuch. I can't believe there are things to debate here? The Tetrateuch, Pentateuch, Hexateuch are all about the same thing. The original altar was at Shechem not Jerusalem. There isn't anything to discuss.

When someone has to resort to swearing

It's common in America to swear in informal settings. Not in academic lecture halls. But common elsewhere.

Secret Alias wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:24 pm But the text says where the altar is established, where the house of God is, and the same place is repeated throughout the Hexateuch. I can't believe there are things to debate here? The Tetrateuch, Pentateuch, Hexateuch are all about the same thing. The original altar was at Shechem not Jerusalem. There isn't anything to discuss.

Have a look at what you have written about and copy each phrase in one of two columns: one column where the text explicitly says what you say it says; the other column where you are inferring it means something that is not explicitly stated in the text.

Do that without comment, swearing, masculine frankness, American ways, or whatever you call it: just the two columns. Nothing else.

Have a look at what you have written about and copy each phrase in one of two columns

No I don't have fucking time. I am waiting for an email to confirm where I am going to be on November 17. Whether it is one place or another. And so I am participating in this stupid thread. The text says what it says. Like:

Johnny walked from his house to the corner store in downtown Mellonville.

There is only one possibility for where Johnny walked unless multiple "Mellonvilles" can be found.

I supposedly have a "Samaritan agenda." I am Jewish not Samaritan. My ancestors took over a religion that wasn't theirs and brought it to Jerusalem perhaps a century or more after the religious was originally established. Not that I care. But in the case of this Hellenistic origins theory it shuts the door on Berossos and whatever else. You have to have factor in the creation of:

1. the Tetrateuch
2. the addition of Deuteronomy (with clear citation of material from Exodus which was later edited out by the Masoretic editors)
3. the addition of Joshua
4. the schism which establishes a specifically Jewish Hexateuchal cult at Jerusalem rather than Gerizim

Not enough time for that. I couldn't care less if the Hexateuch was written on my uncle Gert's birthday for an original cultus in Mellonville. No interest at all. No agenda. No 'defense' of any kind. The Hellenistic origin is a chronological impossibility based on the number of steps it takes to get to Jerusalem.