Plato and the Pentateuch

[Russell Gmirkin]

Actually, ABuddhist, the REG 2006 Berossus book was not published by Routledge. I am somewhat familiar with Routledge, since they published my co-authored Origin of Kibosh: Routledge Studies in Etymology. Instead, the Berossus book was published by T. and T. Clark. If you, ABuddhist, don't get your facts straight, are you a fine representative of Buddhism? Why hide behind Buddhism?

Whose facts aren't straight?

Gmirkin, Russell E., Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible. Copenhagen International Seminar. New York–London: Routledge, 2017.
—“Jeremiah, Plato and Socrates: Greek Antecedents to the Book of Jeremiah” in Jim West and Niels Peter Lemche (eds.), Jeremiah in History and Tradition (Copenhagen International Seminar; London: Routledge, 2020), 21-48.
—Plato’s Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts: Cosmic Monotheism and Terrestrial Polytheism in the Primordial History. Copenhagen International Seminar. New York–London: Routledge, 2022.

That my first book was another respected academic press--T&T Clark International--rather than Routledge hardly undermines ABuddhist's point.

[StephenGoranson]

from WorldCat (oclc-related):

Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus
Hellenistic histories and the date of the Pentateuch /
Russell E Gmirkin

2006
English Book Book 1 v. (xII-332 p.) ; 24 cm.
New York ; London : T & T Clark, ; ISBN: 0567025926 9780567025920

[ABuddhist]

I have other sources on Buddhism.

What are they? And you have yet to provide evidence that I am a poor representation of Buddhism.

As for what you claim I mistranslated from Torah, I am not sure to what you refer, and, though such is indeed possible, I do not rely, yet, on your "humble" assertion.

You misunderstand my claim. I claimed that you were providing a poor example of a mistranslation in the Pentateuch. Here was the discussion.

2. The single example which you quote of inaccuracies in translating the Pentateuch into Greek is fewer that the two example which Gmirkin has cited - and Gmirkin has admitted that 2 errors (arising from scribal errors and poor co-ordination between translator/reader and scribe) are not inconsistent with his hypothesis. I dare to say that a total of three minor errors, presumably arising from scribal errors and poor co-ordination between translator/reader and scribe, would also not be fatal to his theory. Scribal errors remain easy to make even in one's native language - I made a very embarrassing one today in English (writing "not" for "now"). How much more difficult in the past and with a language into which one is translating?

I was asked for an example. I gave an example.

A single example of a translation's error, however, can reveal much more systemic problems in terms of the translator or scribe's understanding of the original language than what you or Gmirkin have given. For example, the scribe into Chinese from Sanskrit of the Vairocanābhisaṃbodhi Sūtra [Taishō Tripiṭaka 18:848], as noted by the translator of the Vairocanābhisaṃbodhi Sūtra into English from Chinese Rolf W. Giebel (in "The Vairocanābhisaṃbodhi Sūtra", Numata Center for Buddhist Research and Translation, 2005 on page 279), apparently confused the Sanskrit word bala ("strength") with the Sanskrit word bāla ("male child") in a passage which is an extended analogy about a seed in which the Sanskrit word bala ("strength") makes more sense.

I did not say you are a "terrible" person; we all have our challenges.

For me, to be a poor representative of Buddhism is to be a terrible person, so strong is my Buddhist faith. I apologize for imputing such a thing to you.

[ABuddhist]

That my first book was another respected academic press--T&T Clark International--rather than Routledge hardly undermines ABuddhist's point.

I am no expert about academic presses. Would you be kind enough to try to answer this question, even by citing from something which you have published?

The Library of Alexandria surely collected books, mostly on papyrus. But is there evidence that they created anthropological field studies to create books in non-Greek languages?

[neilgodfrey]

from WorldCat (oclc-related):

Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus
Hellenistic histories and the date of the Pentateuch /
Russell E Gmirkin

2006
English Book Book 1 v. (xII-332 p.) ; 24 cm.
New York ; London : T & T Clark, ; ISBN: 0567025926 9780567025920

Hi Stephen -- it looks like the part of your post that contained the apology for misleading readers here about Gmirkin and Routledge inadvertently got stripped out because some technical hitch ... embarrassing, I know, but it happens.... I did happen to catch a glimpse of it before it disappeared, though and can repeat it more or less verbatim:

We all make mistakes. . . . I was wrong . . . . Yet again, I was mistaken, as better research by someone else proved. How embarrassing. But I hope I learned some things about research, and moved on to other questions.

No need to thank me for the correction -- just being a kindly neighbour.

---------------------------
Added 5th July 2023

-- in response to seeing that SG took the above in a way it was not intended, see his criticism and my response at viewtopic.php?p=158231#p158231

[StephenGoranson]

That's a weird misrepresentation, even for you, ng.
The Atwill et al. DSD article was responded to by, unless I'm mistaken, by Pilcht, if anyone prefers facts.

[ABuddhist]

The Atwill et al. DSD article was responded to by, unless I'm mistaken, by Pilcht, if anyone prefers facts.

What does that have to do with how reputable Gmirkin's ideas are?

[StephenGoranson]

Fair question. I was in the process of giving an example of how a peer-reviewed publication was demonstrated to be nonsense.

[neilgodfrey]

That's a weird misrepresentation, even for you, ng.

True. The notion that you could ever apologize to Russell Gmirkin for your regular misrepresentations of his work is beyond parody.

[StephenGoranson]

So, ng, you admit to misrepresenting. Maybe that's a step.