Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

lclapshaw wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:50 am

andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:28 am

dbz wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:22 am
<SNIP>

[O]ne can even argue—if we didn’t have the Gospels and Acts imagining a 30s AD date for the religion’s origin, or if we decided to reject that as fiction—that Paul’s letters are more or at least as congruous with the Hasmonean date for the origins of Christianity rather than the Roman, i.e. Paul wrote in the 50s BC, not AD.
[...]
one argument for it is that it would make more sense of Paul’s telling us Aretas had a governor occupying or embargoing Damascus he had to flee from (2 Cor. 11:32-33). In the AD scenario, that requires supposing that incident happened during the Aretas-Judean conflict in 36-37 AD. No other date fits. Though we have no explicit account of Aretas occupying or embargoing Damascus in that war (it’s plausible given what we know, but not directly attested). However, some scholars suggest Paul means by ethnarch in that passage a diplomatic prefect, i.e. the marshal of a “Nabataean Quarter” of Damascus. Though we have no evidence for that being a thing either (though again it is nevertheless also plausible). By contrast, if Paul meant an incident in the 70s or 60s BC, he would have meant Aretas III rather than Aretas IV, who did in fact rule Damascus from 85 to 72 BC.

That this would perfectly align Paul’s entire chronology and ministry with the Talmudic Jesus executed in the 70s BC is indeed intriguing. But alas, this can only be speculated. There isn’t enough evidence to argue it’s probable. Meanwhile the same remarkable coincidence exists between Paul having had to dodge Aretas’s officials in 36, and the date our Gospels and Acts imply for the origin of the religion. The agreement is equally apposite.

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--Richard Carrier comment-26307—10 July 2018—per "Then He Appeared to Over Five Hundred Brethren at Once!". Richard Carrier Blogs. 28 June 2018.

Paul did not write to Corinth during the 50's BC. It was a ruin. (Refounded after 44 BC.)

Andrew Criddle

I always get confused by this but isn't 50 BCE to 40 BCE considered 50's BCE? Counting right to left to 0 as it were?

This article concerns the period 59 BC – 50 BC.

• Decade vs Century

This article concerns the period 59 BC – 50 BC.

---

"50s BC". Wikipedia.

The 6th century BC started the first day of 600 BC and ended the last day of 501 BC.

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"6th century BC". Wikipedia.

dbz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:28 am

• Decade vs Century

This article concerns the period 59 BC – 50 BC.

---

"50s BC". Wikipedia.

The 6th century BC started the first day of 600 BC and ended the last day of 501 BC.

---

"6th century BC". Wikipedia.

andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:04 am

lclapshaw wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:50 am

andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:28 am

dbz wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:22 am
<SNIP>

[O]ne can even argue—if we didn’t have the Gospels and Acts imagining a 30s AD date for the religion’s origin, or if we decided to reject that as fiction—that Paul’s letters are more or at least as congruous with the Hasmonean date for the origins of Christianity rather than the Roman, i.e. Paul wrote in the 50s BC, not AD.
[...]
one argument for it is that it would make more sense of Paul’s telling us Aretas had a governor occupying or embargoing Damascus he had to flee from (2 Cor. 11:32-33). In the AD scenario, that requires supposing that incident happened during the Aretas-Judean conflict in 36-37 AD. No other date fits. Though we have no explicit account of Aretas occupying or embargoing Damascus in that war (it’s plausible given what we know, but not directly attested). However, some scholars suggest Paul means by ethnarch in that passage a diplomatic prefect, i.e. the marshal of a “Nabataean Quarter” of Damascus. Though we have no evidence for that being a thing either (though again it is nevertheless also plausible). By contrast, if Paul meant an incident in the 70s or 60s BC, he would have meant Aretas III rather than Aretas IV, who did in fact rule Damascus from 85 to 72 BC.

That this would perfectly align Paul’s entire chronology and ministry with the Talmudic Jesus executed in the 70s BC is indeed intriguing. But alas, this can only be speculated. There isn’t enough evidence to argue it’s probable. Meanwhile the same remarkable coincidence exists between Paul having had to dodge Aretas’s officials in 36, and the date our Gospels and Acts imply for the origin of the religion. The agreement is equally apposite.

---

--Richard Carrier comment-26307—10 July 2018—per "Then He Appeared to Over Five Hundred Brethren at Once!". Richard Carrier Blogs. 28 June 2018.

Paul did not write to Corinth during the 50's BC. It was a ruin. (Refounded after 44 BC.)

Andrew Criddle

I always get confused by this but isn't 50 BCE to 40 BCE considered 50's BCE? Counting right to left to 0 as it were?

FWIW Wikipedia disagrees with you
50s_BC

This article concerns the period 59 BC – 50 BC.

Andrew Criddle

dbz wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:28 am

• Decade vs Century

This article concerns the period 59 BC – 50 BC.

---

"50s BC". Wikipedia.

The 6th century BC started the first day of 600 BC and ended the last day of 501 BC.

---

"6th century BC". Wikipedia.

rgprice wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:22 am
Also, do you have a citation for where Justin says that IC = Jesus Man?

lclapshaw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:42 pm

rgprice wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:22 am
Also, do you have a citation for where Justin says that IC = Jesus Man?

Sorry, having trouble finding it. Maybe try PMing SA.