Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Posted: **Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:18 pm**

neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:13 pm
Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:03 am The proposition that the NT apocryphal corpus is a post Nicene literary avalanche of reaction to the NT canonical books allows that NTC books to have been composed in any century you'd like to nominate. ie 1st or 2nd or 3rd. There is no conspiracy here. Forget any 4th century NTC.

The orthodoxy wanted total control over which of the Jesus stories to be the authoritative set. We know the Christian orthodoxy destroyed and burnt the NTA corpus. This in my view was the conspiracy of the Nicene church. That is to remove the authorship of the NTA from the time period in which the NTC was first politically circulated during the rule of Constantine. They wanted to do this because it was not a good look for the NTC.

To effect this IMO the orthodoxy fabricated the heresiological narratives.
If I understand your position, you seem to be saying that the non-christians produced "apocryphal" works to counter the canonical books being promoted by the "Nicene church"

Basically correct. The NT canonical (NTC) books were being promoted by the Nicene Church and the emperor in his capacity as the lawful and rightful "pontifex Maximus" to essentially serve the role as a "Holy Writ" of a centralised monotheistic religion within the Graeco-Roman civilisation. The educated elites from this Hellenistic civilisation at that time resisted the authority of the NTC and part of this resistance was to author what we now refer to as the NT apocryphal (NTA) books. These counter-books covered a broad range of perspectives which included those of philosophical tracts, Hellenistic romance stories, lists of sayings, even satirical responses -- all of which generally featured Jesus and the apostles and which were entitled as "Gospels", "Acts", "Revelations" and so forth in a counter literary production to what appeared as "Gospels", "Acts", "Revelations" and so forth, within the NTC.

-- and that the Nicene church also, in addition to burning those books, organized persons to produce the works known to us as the works of Irenaeus, Tertullian etc that were attacking the arguments in those apocryphal works. Is that a fair summary of your view?

The Nicene church (and that which descended from it over the centuries) absolutely knew and were aware that they could not hope to destroy and obliterate all the NTA books which had been produced by the pagan resistance. They had to live with the situation that some of these books would be preserved "underground" by those who resisted the authority of the NTC. The NTA books would keep turning up. What could the church do about this situation? It decided to make it appear as if the NTA books preceded the Christian revolution of the 4th century. Through the heresiological pseudo-history the church "retro-scripted" some of the NTA books into earlier centuries.

The proposition is that the heresiological narratives of Irenaeus, Tertullian etc were not just written to attack the arguments in the NTA books. The heresiological narratives presented the authors (and preservers) of the NTA books as demented, deranged and sexual deviants. As such the heresiological attacks were ad hominem as well. But the proposition explores more than just this.

In the heresiological literature entire lineages of the heretics (these NTA authors) were designed to go back to the early centuries such as to Simon Magus and the Simonians. But in reality the Nicene church was trying to explain the appearance of the Acts of Peter and the Clementine literature in which Simon Magus was given a starring role. These were very entertaining and popular books with the pagans for a very short highly controversial epoch. The heresiologists wrote about the Sethians in the 2nd century but in reality the Sethian tracts in the NHL were products of the pagan resistance of the post Nicene epoch. The pagans decided to ditch Adam (in the LXX part of the NT Bible codex) and instead run with Seth. Plato was used to set all this in a known extensive Platonic cosmology. All this represented a resistance to the process of Christianisation. Alternate gospels and acts were written to various purposes. The authors were the very first political Christian heretics.

Heresiological narratives as pseudo-historical fabrication

These were not just attacking the arguments in the NTA books as described above. It was attacking the very historical composition, authorship, circulation and existence of the NTA books in the Roman empire during the Christian revolution of the 4th century (325-381 CE). These narratives attacked the existence of the NTA books. Those NTA gospels, acts et al which would compete with the popularity of the imperially sponsored NTC gospels and acts etc.

ETA: The above concerns idea (1) that the NTA > 325 CE
Thanks for your effort in trying to understanding this idea NG.

The Arian controversy was essentially about the NTA Books

Yes you did provide a fair summary of my view however it needs to be sketched in broader terms of political history. My view sees an avalanche of NTA books 325-337 CE. These books were politically sensitive - they competed with the official NTC books. There was a massive apocalyptic controversy in that epoch. A massive boundary event of competing social and political wills. I believe it is reasonable that so-called "Arian controversy" as we know its history today was instead about the controversy over the NTA gospels and acts etc.

FWIW Idea (2) is a corollary

As a corollary to this I believe that it is reasonable to suggest that Arius of Alexandria was one of the focal points of the pagan resistance and that Arius authored at least some of the books of the NTA. Anyone who seeks to determine the evidence by which the above beliefs can be substantiated you will find them in a 2011 essay: "A Pageant of Christian Identity Frauds masquerade in the Academy of Plato" and in the section titled:

The Two Arii - Arius of Alexandria the Platonist and Arius the Christian Presbyter.
http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/Nicae ... rist.htm#5

I am happy to try and answer any questions concerning Idea (1): NTA > 325 CE

Posted: **Sat Jul 08, 2023 2:11 am**

Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:18 pm The Nicene church (and that which descended from it over the centuries) absolutely knew and were aware that they could not hope to destroy and obliterate all the NTA books which had been produced by the pagan resistance. They had to live with the situation that some of these books would be preserved "underground" by those who resisted the authority of the NTC. The NTA books would keep turning up. What could the church do about this situation? It decided to make it appear as if the NTA books preceded the Christian revolution of the 4th century. Through the heresiological pseudo-history the church "retro-scripted" some of the NTA books into earlier centuries.

We understand history (like most other things) through analogy. Is here any other comparable process we know of in human experience where an authority not only waged war on subversive literature (e.g. book burning) AND undertook to manufacture false genealogies and representations of that subversive literature through a similar means as you say was undertaken by the Nicene church?

Or what analogy is there in history where the same kind of literary forgery process was undertaken to undermine subversives?

What evidence is there that the writings of Irenaeus etc were attempting to undermine fourth century works?

Posted: **Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:12 pm**

neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 2:11 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:18 pm The Nicene church (and that which descended from it over the centuries) absolutely knew and were aware that they could not hope to destroy and obliterate all the NTA books which had been produced by the pagan resistance. They had to live with the situation that some of these books would be preserved "underground" by those who resisted the authority of the NTC. The NTA books would keep turning up. What could the church do about this situation? It decided to make it appear as if the NTA books preceded the Christian revolution of the 4th century. Through the heresiological pseudo-history the church "retro-scripted" some of the NTA books into earlier centuries.
We understand history (like most other things) through analogy. Is here any other comparable process we know of in human experience where an authority not only waged war on subversive literature (e.g. book burning) AND undertook to manufacture false genealogies and representations of that subversive literature through a similar means as you say was undertaken by the Nicene church?

Or what analogy is there in history where the same kind of literary forgery process was undertaken to undermine subversives?

Thanks very much for this great question NG. To be honest I cannot atm provide a good or satisfactory answer to it. Perhaps the closest ideas are related to a literary false flag operation. Other generalities would include common fraud, false alibi, retro-scripted false attestations, fake dated heretics. The pseudo-isidore forgeries uses fake dated orthodox sources (not heretical sources). The victors in the struggle between the orthodox canonical books and the heretical apocryphal books were the ones to write the history of the struggle. I believe the orthodox heresiological narratives are pseudo-historical.

But there may be no exact analogies to this situation from history. The closest analogy that I can think of atm is the pseudo-historical account known as the "Historia Augusta" (HA). To understand this analogy one needs to be able to understand the HA.

The Historia Augusta

The Historia Augusta purports to have been written under Diocletian and Constantine. It represents a collection of Bogus Biographies - and has been called an ancient "mockumentary". It reflects The Politics of two separate "fake" groups of six "fake" authors? The Politics of just one single author has been conjectured and established by Computer analysis. Fake Documents abound - totaling 160 forgeries. It is often observed that the senatorial audience preferred novels and fictions, not history and facts. The HA demonstrates the novel invention not only of (a) Fake Sources but also of (b) other Fake Sources which disagree with them. This is exactly what I have proposed with the heresiological narratives which purport to disagree (vehemently) with the heretical books (NTA). Some notes on the HA are here:
http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/Historia_Augusta.htm

In defense of my proposition atm I'd have to claim that we are dealing with an extremely unique situation, We are dealing with an organisation and its industry (the Christian church) which has enjoyed an almost absolute power for much (not all) of its long history. Perhaps a thousand years. This industry relied upon (and still relies upon to a large degree) the inviolable authority invested in the NT canonical story books. These feature and represent the supposed 1st century historical appearance of the figure of IS XS (Jesus Christ).

At some stage the NT Apocryphal (NTA) story books were authored and circulated. The question is when. The heresiological writings attributed to various "church fathers" would lead scholarship to conclude this authorship process was spread over many centuries (from the 2nd - some say possibly 1st - to the later 4th). The earliest physical evidence that has survived appears however to be extremely focused around the mid 4th century. (NHL is a good example).

General theory for the NT Apocryphal books

In conclusion I'd like to point out that AFAIK there is no general theory for the authorship and date of composition of the NTA as a corpus. Everyone is focused on the NT canonical books. (I wonder why?) Everything related to chronology of the NTA defers to the heresiological narratives. What I am doing here is to provide a general theory for the NTA. The basic proposition is that nobody would be motivated to write the NTA responses to the NTC while the NTC were little known deep underground books. The Christians are generally thought to be small in number prior to the 4th century. It is therefore logical to propose that only when the NTC achieved notoriety with the support of the emperor Constantine did anyone really bother to read them and their encrypted names. To quote Momigliano "The Bible was no literature for the pagan. Its Greek was not elegant enough."

What evidence is there that the writings of Irenaeus etc were attempting to undermine fourth century works?

I see no direct evidence atm. It is indirect. The Greek writings of Irenaeus do not survive. All we have is Latin translations and scholarship seems to focus on the earliest translation date c.381 CE which coincides with the dismal Theodosian decrees and massive anti-pagan legislation. This date also coincides with the harmonisation between the Greek east and the Latin west of three strands of pseudo-historical fabrications: 1) Christian hagiography, 2) the cult of the saints and martyrs and 3) the holy relic trade. These three strands eclipsed study of the NT Bible for over a thousand years. The conflict between the NTC and the NTA was reduced to lists of prohibited books. The classic list Decretum Gelasianum concludes with the following:

all disciples of heresy and of the heretics and schismatics, whose names we have scarcely preserved, have taught or compiled, we acknowledge is to be not merely rejected but eliminated from the whole Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church and with their authors and the followers of its authors to be damned in the inextricable shackles of anathema forever.

http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/Decre ... sianum.htm

We have an extremely powerful organisation (industry) trying to eliminate the history of the books of the heretics and the controversy over their appearance and destruction. I think the church has lied about its pagan detractors. The scholarship of the likes of Erhman claims that nobody questioned the existence of Jesus in the entire history of the reception of the bible. I reject this as naïve. Instead I claim that there was a massive controversy during the rule of Constantine and in the decades and centuries which followed in which pagan authors wrote their own Jesus story books. And some of them were satirical treatments of the canonical Jesus Story Book. Such as the Toledot Yeshu.

Posted: **Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:51 am**

If I recall correctly, LC/Pete/mountainman--correct me if I am mistaken--,
many years ago you were asked about the origin of Christianity,
and you replied that it originated with Constantine.
Where did that first response come from?
As far as I recall, it was not based from original-to-you research presented back then.
(I'm not asking about your subsequent posts.)
So, from where or whom, if you recall, did you get this claim?

Posted: **Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:34 pm**

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:51 am If I recall correctly, LC/Pete/mountainman--correct me if I am mistaken--,
many years ago you were asked about the origin of Christianity,
and you replied that it originated with Constantine.
Where did that first response come from?
As far as I recall, it was not based from original-to-you research presented back then.
(I'm not asking about your subsequent posts.)
So, from where or whom, if you recall, did you get this claim?

As far as I am aware (and I stand to be corrected on this) I may have been the first to make this claim supported by a study of the primary sources in a thesis I sent to the JHS in September of 2007 with a referee report response issued dated October 2007.

THESIS 2007: http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/thesis.pdf
JHS REF.RPT: http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/thesi ... eports.htm

However in the years following I realised that I had not made sufficient study of the NT Apocrypha (NTA) and the heresiological narratives of the "early church". As a result my study to date has been focused on two new ideas, the second of which is really just a corollary of the first:

Idea (1) The Gnostic Gospels and Acts (i.e. the NTA) were authored 325-336 CE as a reaction to the Constantine Bible

Idea (2) Is actually a corollary which logically follows from Idea (1) namely that:
Evidence of systematic Christian identify theft suggests Arius of Alexandria may not have been a Christian, but in fact a Platonic theologian, and may be identified with the Gnostic Leucius Charinus

In prosecuting Idea (1) I have accepted the condition that the NT canonical writings (NTC) may be accepted to be the product of any of the earlier centuries 1, 2 or 3. That is, no matter when the NTC was authored (all theories for the authorship of the canonical books may remain on the table) I am arguing that the NTA are post Nicene literary responses to the NTC at that epoch when they received political prominence in the Roman empire - that is, during the rule of Constantine.

Posted: **Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:29 am**

Thanks, Pete/LC/Mtm, but that's not what I'm asking for. Somewhere in this Forum, iirc, you mentioned responding to some prompt or other that Christianity began with Constantine (responded) BEFORE your 2007 draft article. And then, later, started (additional?) researching.

What I am asking for--if you care to respond to this particular question--is where did you FIRST get your Constantine-origin idea?

Posted: **Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:53 am**

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:29 am Thanks, Pete/LC/Mtm, but that's not what I'm asking for. Somewhere in this Forum, iirc, you mentioned responding to some prompt or other that Christianity began with Constantine (responded) BEFORE your 2007 draft article. And then, later, started (additional?) researching.

What I am asking for--if you care to respond to this particular question--is where did you FIRST get your Constantine-origin idea?

The original idea that the answers provided by biblical scholars to Christian origins should be examined and reviewed by independent thought processes was first stated Sep 8, 2005, 11:42:16 AM in the alt.surfing news group. I had been involved in discussions in this group for about 10 years. Discussions were varied but usually about surfing breaks over the world, how to predict swell, and the like. At that time I made the following post in response to a note about biblical scholars:

biblical scripture and scholars
mountain man
Sep 8, 2005, 11:42:16 AM
to
"shaftŽ" <op...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126115395.6...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Surfer Bob wrote:
>> Any biblical scholars with more time on their hands than I have care to
>> step up and interpret scripture for us on this point?
>
> You don't have to be a "scholar" to interpret scripture.
> Read Acts 11.

I disagree. The "scripture" as you see it today was
basically "assembled" under command of the Roman
Emperor Constantine, controlled securely by his storm
troopers from the outside, and his puppet bishop
Eusebius on the inside, at the Council of Nicea in 325.

The hippies were getting out of control, and something
needed to be done to bring the empire together. Look
at any large and powerful government, and its actions
in regard to conquest and power.

Ppl who read the bible should also study how it was
assembled, and by whom, and for what reason. Scholars
have in the past and present examined these questions,
and while I am not suggesting their answers to these
questions are to be treated as gospel, I am suggesting
that their answers should be examined and reviewed
by independent thought processes.

--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ

The post is still online here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.surfing ... ZDdZV2HRgJ

If you read the following responses you'll find that Roger Pearce chimes in. I was impressed with his research into the scholarship surrounding the mainstream ideas concerning Christian origins (such as the tertullian.org site) and tracked him back to the Internet Infidels discussion group. The rest is history.

Posted: **Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:43 pm**

Thank you for that interesting first online instance of your view.
What I really ask is where, how, or when you came to such a view.
Stephen,
formerly located near the Atlantic Ocean.

Posted: **Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:07 am**

Pete is the hippie (surfer) fighting back.

At 17, I walked away from Roman Catholicism (the one, true Apostolic faith) after a mundane but insulting/offensive encounter w/ a nun. In Confirmation class, whatever it was designated, a group of about 15 kids were asked at one point "Do you have any questions?" I replied simply, w/o sass: "What if I don't believe the priest turns the wine into the actual blood of Jesus?" And she angrily sent me away with the scold: "Return when you are ready to believe!"

See ya!

It IS somewhat ironic that, in the past ~5 years, I have become intellectually fascinated by 1st C theories of Hermetic/Gnostic-alchemical transubstantiation. But I am not rejoining Xianity, sorry -- and I have zero desire to 'convert' anyone to 'my way of thinking' either.

Posted: **Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:23 am**

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:43 pm Thank you for that interesting first online instance of your view.
What I really ask is where, how, or when you came to such a view.

I had earlier made a study of:

* Western Science - Discovery and Knowledge of the Outer World of Nature
* Western Mystics, Poets and Religions - Discovery and Knowledge of the Inner World of Nature
* Eastern Mystics, Poets and Religions - Discovery and Knowledge of the Inner World of Nature
* Global Terrestrial Nativity - Cosmic Solidarity of the Human Soul ... All are indigenous

and wrote it up with the following contents:

http://mountainman.com.au/
Western Science

"Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of Nature.
And it is because in the last analysis we ourselves
are part of the mystery we are trying to solve."
- Max Planck

[0570-BC] Pythagoras: Resources notes & references - Science, Nature and the Immortal Soul
[1882-AD] Clerk Maxwell: Axioms of Traditional Western Doctrine of Physical Science - Matter and Motion
[1905-AD] Albert Einstein: What is the relativity concerning the Inner cosmos and the Outer cosmos?
[1931-AD] The Electromagnetic Field: Two articles on Clerk Maxwell's work - Albert Einstein & Thomas Torrance
[1963-AD] The Second Cybernetics: LIFE & Deviation-Amplifying Mutual Causal Processes - Magorah Maruyama
[1965-AD] Julius Sumner Miller: Why is the sky blue? Why is the sunset red? Why is a dewdrop round? Why is it So?
[1969-AD] The Eagle & GAIA: The Eagle lands on the Moon - Lovelock & Margulis postulate the Gaia Hypothesis
[1970-AD] The Infinite River: A Biologist's (William H. Amos) Vision of the World of Water - Elemental and profound
[1972-AD] Isaac Asimov: The Triple Triumph of the Moon - A mystery as deep as Time Itself ...
[1982-AD] Fritjof Capra: "The Turning Point" - The Systems View of Life - EcoSystemic Science
[1984-AD] The Nature of Chaos: [Book Reviews] - Prigogine, Stengers and others - Man's new discourse with Nature
[1982-AD] Rediscovery of TIME: An article by Dr Ilya Prigogine, Nobel Lareate 1977 (Chemistry)
[1994-AD] TUCSON II: Emergence of Interdisciplinary Conferences "Towards a Science of Consciousness"
[1995-AD] Power vs Force: A scientific Map of Consciousness - Dr. Richard Hawkins
[1997-AD] Astrology?: Review of the book "A Scientfic Basis of Astrology" - Seymour (Astrophysicist/Astronomer)
[1998-AD] Theories of the Aether: Emergent scientific theories re-examine the ancient aether
[1999-AD] FAQ: The Aether: The Fifth (Quintessence) of the ancient elements of nature - Saga of the Scientific Program
[2000-AD] Process Physics: The Saga of a Modern Aristarchus - Reg Cahill, Flinders University, Australia
[2004-AD] NOF: A resource pertaining to the number of ordered factorisations, harmonics & abundance

Western Mystics, Poets and Religions

[0600-BC] The Ancient West: Thales, Heraclitus & others - Nature and the Indigenous Roots of Western Culture
[0570-BC] Pythagoras: Resources notes & references - Science, Nature and the Immortal Soul
[0004-BC] Jesus of Nazareth : A summary of the entire Bible in a few short words - by the man of Whom it speaks
[0004-BC] Apollonius of Tyana: "The Buried Classic" of Philostratus {220AD} - Western Sage journeys to India
[0000-CE] AUTHORS of ANTIQUITY: An article concerning an alternative view of the history of christian antiquity.
[0030-AD] The Sermon on the Mount: And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain ...
[0133-CE] Secundus the Philosopher: How it was to be a philosopher, translated by Ben Perry.
[0270-CE] The Hermetic Wisdom: "As is below, so it is above; as on earth, so in the sky ..."
[0300-CE] Iamblichus: Outline of the Pythagorean Aphorisms, valid every day.
[0325-CE] Did Constantine Invent Christianity?: An article concerning an alternative history of pre-Nicaean antiquity
[0361-CE] Julian: Two articles ... Kronia, and Against the Galilaeans
[0391-CE] Ammianus Marcellinus: A stub for the Res Gestae, a history of the Roman Empire 350-390 CE
[0571-CE] The Prophet Muhammad: A brief sketch of his life; & the wisdom of the Qur'an
[1869-CE] Henry Kendall: The Spirit of the Australian Mountain Bush - Bellbirds - "By channels of coolness ..."
[1880-CE] Alvin Boyd Kuhn: A Pennsylvanian writer - The Great Myth of the Sun Gods [1880-1963]
[1888-CE] Banjo Patterson: The Man from Snowy River, & other epics - the legendary spirit of Outback Australia
[1927-CE] Desiderata: Go placidly amidst the noise and haste and remember what peace there may be in silence {Max}
[1914-CE] Kahlil Gibran: Which one of us listens to the hymn of the brook when the tempest speaks?
[1926-CE] Alfred North Whitehead: Religion in the Making - A Series of 4 Lectures
[1962-CE] The Future Evolution of Man: Collation of the works of Sri Aurobindo (1872-1950) by Saint-Hilaire
[1997-CE] The Four Agreements: "Be Impeccable with your word" - Don Miguel Ruiz

Eastern Mystics, Poets and Religions

[3700-BC] Indus_Sarasvati Resources: The Sarasvati River of the Rig Veda, flowing from the Himalaya to the Gulf
[3700-BC] The Rig Veda: The ancient OuterWorldview: sun, earth, moon, sky, wind, water, fire - nature of Primal Man.
[3700-BC] The Mystic Fire: Hymns to the Mystic Fire - Commentary [1946] on the Rig Veda by Sri Aurobindo.
[1400-BC] Katha Upanishad: The ancient InnerWorldview: the inner nature of man - unchanging ...
[0544-BC] The Gospel of Buddha: Compiled from ancient record by Dr. Paul Carus, USA, 1894
[0544-BC] Nature of Mind: What is the Mind? Where does the mind exist? Eastern Science speaks across the millenia
[0300-BC] The TAO: The Mystic Writings of Ancient China concerning the Way of Life and of Virtue ...
[0130-BC] The Tirukural: by Saint Tiruvalluvar, southern India - appropriate for the planet and all Ages
[0010-CE] Apollonius of Tyana: "The Buried Classic" of Philostratus {220AD} - Western Sage journeys to India
[0571-CE] The Prophet Muhammad: A brief sketch of his life; & the wisdom of the Qur'an
[0606-CE] Chien-chih Seng-ts'an: Third Zen Patriarch - Hsin Hsin Ming (Faith Mind)
[1706-CE] Saint Thayumanavar: The 1400 Hymns of the Silent Sage - Uncircumscribed Effulgence
[1866-CE] Theodor Stcherbatsky : Russian Indologist, Buddhist scholar and luminary [1866-1942]
[1872-CE] Yogaswami: The Ageless Words of the Sri Lankan Master [1874-1964]
[1884-CE] "GURU JI": The Science of the Soul - Wisdom of Maharaj Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh (B.Sc.) [1884-1951]
[1902-CE] A Forest Monk: An Autobiography of a Forest Meditation Monk - Venerable Ajahn Tate, Thailand
[1908-CE] Swami Muktananda: Siddha Yogi - Observer of the Play of Consciousness - upon the Path of Love
[1915-CE] The Superman: All-Will and Free-Will and The Delight of Works - publications of Sri Aurobindo
[1962-CE] The Future Evolution of Man: Collation of the works of Sri Aurobindo (1872-1950) by Saint-Hilaire
[1989-CE] Dalai Lama: Nobel Peace Prize, Oslo, Norway, 1989 - Acceptance Speech by the exiled King of Tibet

Global Terrestrial Nativity

[61,000 BCE] The Dreamtime: Australian aboriginal peoples resources - insights from the planet's most ancient culture.
[1854-CE] Chief Seattle: The Spirit of the American Indians - On Record for the Survival of ManKind
[1911-CE] Dr Charles Eastman: Born Ohiyesa of the Santee Sioux in 1858 writes concerning The Soul of the Indian
[1915-CE] Altai Mountain Spirit: The Altai Mountains and the Katun River - Grigory Choros-Gurkin, Siberia
[1948-CE] Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Proclamation of the United Nations General Assembly
[1973-CE] Seven Arrows: Hyemeyohsts Storm - the Medicine Wheel of Life - We are the Universal Mirror
[1989-CE] Dalai Lama: Nobel Peace Prize, Oslo, Norway, 1989 - Acceptance Speech by the exiled King of Tibet
[1992-CE] Wisdom of the Elders: Review - Knudtson & Suzuki - Native & Scientific Mind - a Sacred Ecology
[1992-CE] Redfern Statement: Australian PM welcomes in UN International Year (93) for World's Indigenous People
[1993-CE] Rights of Indigeneous Peoples: United Nations Draft Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
[1994-CE] Transcendence: The Need Thereof in a PostModern World - speech by Vaclav Havel (Czech president)
[1997-CE] The Four Agreements: A Toltec Guide to Personal Freedom - publication by Don Miguel Ruiz
[1998-CE] Indigenous Spirituality: Native Title & Reconciliation - The First Peoples: Australia and the Planet
[2014-CE] Dark Emu: The First People had villages, and farmed the continent. [Bruce Pascoe]

I was interested in all this stuff. I asked myself the question how much of Christianity did Constantine invent , how much of Christianity did he find in his world of the 3rd and 4th centuries and how much did Eusebius indulge in fraud.

Stephen,
formerly located near the Atlantic Ocean.

"To discuss Christianity without mentioning
other religions would be like discussing the
greatness of the Atlantic Ocean without the
slightest mention of the many tributaries
that keep it flowing."

-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
-- Papers Project

Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?

Re: Heh

Re: After 20 Years Plus of Flogging His Theory How Many Here at the Forum Believe Mountainman?