Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

New user, lurked here for a while. The discussions on this board are really informative and interesting especially to someone like me who went to a Christian girls' school for the last years of primary school and high school a few years ago and developed an interest in the origins of Christianity from years of Christian Studies classes.

I've got a weird question and I'm not sure if this subforum is even the right place to put it or if my OP is really that clear. Apologies if I've posted in the wrong place or I'm unclear. Right now I'm working on a historical novel in "diary format" in a loose sense of "diary"-- it's more like "epistolary'' which is a retelling of the Pantera legend identifying him with Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera and trying to imagine what might have happened and who he was exactly. It's done through the format of a notebook in which he copies down the letters he sends and receives from home and keeps detailed notes on the events of his life, something like diary entries but at the same time not. I'll admit that some of my ideas come from lurking on this board.

I've already found some resources on the legend including the book by Deissman and this: https://archive.org/details/lifeofjesuscriti01stra as well as http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_ ... 548237/113 and a number of others (again suggested by lurking). I think I've got the legend's background covered.

Does anyone know of good resources-- books, papers etc on daily life just before the birth of Jesus, especially in Sidon where Abdes Pantera was born? I'm particularly looking for information on temple slavery related to Ashtart/Astarte that isn't the same stuff repeated over and over again, and I know that's hard to find.

Hope this question is in the right place and that it isn't too weird or stupid.

Welcome.

As far as I know there is nothing that will help the mythology gain any traction what so ever as being historical.

Celsus claim is not credible in any way, his hatred to deep.


You have a slight connection with panther and "Parthenos" that may have been what Celsus used.

[quote="outhouse"]Welcome.

As far as I know there is nothing that will help the mythology gain any traction what so ever as being historical.

Celsus claim is not credible in any way, his hatred to deep.


You have a slight connection with panther and "Parthenos" that may have been what Celsus used.[/quote]


Thanks. Of course the legend isn't historical, but the period is and I want to make the characters' actions and attitudes historically plausible. The story is more on the lines of "What could have happened if this legend or parts of it were true?" Basically it's an adaptation of an old legend, which has been adapted several times before.

Sigurdrifa wrote:The story is more on the lines of "What could have happened if this legend or parts of it were true?"


.

Sorry im not more help.


But I think that if it were true, nothing changes, or would have been changed.

Christianity was born of two events. The need for Hellenist to divorce Judaism, and Jesus perceived actions in the temple he was martyred for.

outhouse wrote:

Sigurdrifa wrote:The story is more on the lines of "What could have happened if this legend or parts of it were true?"


.

Sorry im not more help.


But I think that if it were true, nothing changes, or would have been changed.

Christianity was born of two events. The need for Hellenist to divorce Judaism, and Jesus perceived actions in the temple he was martyred for.

Of course nothing changes in relation to Jesus... what I meant was something more literary than historical, along the lines of "Who were Pantera and Mary really and what was their possible relationship like?" And to make my answer to that question plausible I need resources on things like daily life in Sidon just before the 1st century; do you know of anything like that?

Maybe I should post this in another subforum too.

Contact James Tabor he went to the grave of that soldier recently probably for a Simcha documentary

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually read his blog.

Sigurdrifa wrote:And to make my answer to that question plausible I need resources on things like daily life in Sidon just before the 1st century; do you know of anything like that?

I do not.

But I would be more interested in the happenings of Sepphoris more so then Sidon in context.

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually read his blog.

Personally you will have better luck doing your own work then having to rely on James, he is a bit of a nut job.

Sigurdrifa wrote:I've already found some resources on the legend including the book by Deissman and this: https://archive.org/details/lifeofjesuscriti01stra as well as http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_ ... 548237/113 and a number of others (again suggested by lurking). I think I've got the legend's background covered.

Does anyone know of good resources-- books, papers etc on daily life just before the birth of Jesus, especially in Sidon where Abdes Pantera was born? I'm particularly looking for information on temple slavery related to Ashtart/Astarte that isn't the same stuff repeated over and over again, and I know that's hard to find.

Deissman's book is interesting, and at least it gives some background in the form of inscriptions and such, but Diessman can be a little too willing to let his imagination roam. All I can suggest is to look for classical studies of the Roman era, but even those can be a bit stilted at times.

As for temple slaves, they were not really slaves, but tenant farmers on lands owned by the temple. That being said, there is a good chance that Diessman was speaking through his hat. He never mentions the person who told him details about the location of the cohort of archers he was a member of, and I cannot find anything about it before the 2nd or 3rd century. If he spun things regarding the archer's cohort's location, maybe he also did so about the name "abdes" referring to a temple slave. How the hell does he know that?

http://www.earlywritings.com/forum/view ... des#p12151

DCH

DCHindley wrote:

Sigurdrifa wrote:I've already found some resources on the legend including the book by Deissman and this: https://archive.org/details/lifeofjesuscriti01stra as well as http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_ ... 548237/113 and a number of others (again suggested by lurking). I think I've got the legend's background covered.

Does anyone know of good resources-- books, papers etc on daily life just before the birth of Jesus, especially in Sidon where Abdes Pantera was born? I'm particularly looking for information on temple slavery related to Ashtart/Astarte that isn't the same stuff repeated over and over again, and I know that's hard to find.

Deissman's book is interesting, and at least it gives some background in the form of inscriptions and such, but Diessman can be a little too willing to let his imagination roam. All I can suggest is to look for classical studies of the Roman era, but even those can be a bit stilted at times.

As for temple slaves, they were not really slaves, but tenant farmers on lands owned by the temple. That being said, there is a good chance that Diessman was speaking through his hat. He never mentions the person who told him details about the location of the cohort of archers he was a member of, and I cannot find anything about it before the 2nd or 3rd century. If he spun things regarding the archer's cohort's location, maybe he also did so about the name "abdes" referring to a temple slave. How the hell does he know that?

http://www.earlywritings.com/forum/view ... des#p12151

DCH

That makes me think. I'm probably not being clear, sorry about that if I am, but I think that Abdes is a male Phoenician name that may mean "servant of Isis" and/or "scourge" and that if he was a temple slave the name isn't because he was a temple slave but simply his name.http://books.google.com.au/books?id=s2K ... his%20book mentions a man called "Abdes the Tyrian."

Without spoiling the plot, I'll say that my idea was that he was a temple slave at the temple of Astarte and Eshmun in Sidon before he joined the army. Do you know if temple slaves could be domestic servants to the officials as well? What I've read seems to suggest that in some places they were actually marked with tattoos to show they "belonged" to the temple and could also hire themselves out for jobs.