Re: Ehrman: Galatians 4:14 casts Jesus as an Angel
Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:21 pm
Thanks for this observation GakuseiDon, for the OP MrMacson and for the quote maryhelena.GakuseiDon wrote:Does anyone know how angels were supposed to be received? The only example I can think of off-hand is the story of Lot. I'm wondering how Paul was telling us he was received. (Hopefully better than the angels in the Lot story!)
Christ as an Angel in Paul
..... <snip>
"In the context of the verse [Gal 4:14], Paul is reminding the Galatians of how they first received him when he was ill in their midst and they helped restore him to health ... 'Even though my bodily condition was a test for you, you did not mock or despise me, but you received me as an angel of God, as Jesus Christ.'
"I had always read the verse to say that the Galatians had received Paul in his infirm state the way they would have received an angelic visitor, or even Christ himself. In fact, however, the grammar of the Greek suggests something quite different. As Charles Gieschen has argued, and has now been affirmed in a book on Christ as an angel by New Testament specialist Susan Garrett*, the verse is not saying that the Galatians received Paul as an angel or as Christ; it is saying that they received him as they would an angel, such as Christ. By clear implication, then, Christ is an angel."
Ehrman, Bart D. (2014-03-25). How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee (pp. 252-253). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.
..... <snip>
"In the context of the verse [Gal 4:14], Paul is reminding the Galatians of how they first received him when he was ill in their midst and they helped restore him to health ... 'Even though my bodily condition was a test for you, you did not mock or despise me, but you received me as an angel of God, as Jesus Christ.'
"I had always read the verse to say that the Galatians had received Paul in his infirm state the way they would have received an angelic visitor, or even Christ himself. In fact, however, the grammar of the Greek suggests something quite different. As Charles Gieschen has argued, and has now been affirmed in a book on Christ as an angel by New Testament specialist Susan Garrett*, the verse is not saying that the Galatians received Paul as an angel or as Christ; it is saying that they received him as they would an angel, such as Christ. By clear implication, then, Christ is an angel."
Ehrman, Bart D. (2014-03-25). How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee (pp. 252-253). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.
What sort of an angel (or messenger) was Jesus?
I think most people assume, as exemplified above, that Jesus was some sort of Jewish angel. The basis of this assumption is that the NT Jesus Story is supposedly attempting to depict historical events in Judea in the 1st century. Thus if Jesus is indeed some sort of angel or messenger from the god or gods then Jesus is a messenger of angel of the Jewish god. And we have the Greek LXX in which to find Him, thanks to Origen's library.
But is there a big problem with all this - that we are not dealing with the grammar of the Hebrew, but the nuances of the Greek.? Is there a big problem in the very real possibility that the Jesus Story was never written in Hebrew for the Hebrews - that It was written in Greek for the Greek literature classes of the Roman empire? The entire purpose of the NT Bible was in some form of expectation of the conversion of these "gentiles" to the religious cult of the (Canonical Jesus Story) Christians.
For the purposes of the Jesus Story, isn't it obvious that Jesus was being portrayed (in Greek) to the Greeks as a form of an angel or messenger that the Greeks would understand? Therefore isn't it important to first understand how, not the Jews but the Greeks, understood the notion of spiritual beings? What was the "daimon" (guardian spirit) for example and how did this interact with the gods, the messengers of the gods, and other spirits?
Jesus as a Greek Angel: Depiction of Jesus in roles that Homer had given to Athena and Hermes
Scholars say the non canonical Acts of Andrew was authored by some gnostic Greek Christian at the end of the second or early in the third century. What did the author of this "Christian text" think about the role of Jesus as a messenger or an angelic spirit?
According the conclusion of Dennis R. MacDonald ...
- More remarkable is the depiction of Jesus in roles that Homer had given to Athena and Hermes. Just as Athena assisted Telemachus by sailing with him in disguise, Jesus does the same for Andrew. As Athena appeared to Odysseus after he awoke on his Ithican shore, Jesus appears to Andrew when he awakes at Myrmidonia. Jesus’ appearance as a young child at the end of the AAMt imitates Hermes’ appearance as a youth to Priam. Like Olympians who took sides between Greeks and Trojans, Jesus and the devil appear to their champions granting advice, inspiration and strength. ….
Christianizing Homer : The Odyssey, Plato, and the Acts of Andrew: The ...
By Dennis R. MacDonald Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins Iliff School of Theology
Does it really matter that literate Greeks did not accept Jesus as a Jewish angel of some sort? Who was in charge, according to the Greeks, of the great mystery of the spiritual realm anyway? The Christian god? Not likely. The Greeks were not unintelligent. They posited some sort of government of gods
Athanasius tells us that the Greeks derided the mystery that the Jews traduced and the Christians adored.
MrMacSon this may have wandered away from the intent of your OP, however I believe that there are some important RELATED questions above that need to be answered. The OP is about the nuances of the Greek, the language selected by the NT authors for their literary mission from above.
LC