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Zen and the Art of Historical Study

Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 9:39 pm
by Peter Kirby
Let's start at the beginning.

What are we doing here?

There are lots of different reasons people can come to be involved in the study of the subject. This can be nice because it means that there's a lot of people that you can interact with on the subject. It also can cause a lot of discord because people who have different purposes often end up irreconcilably at odds with each other in how they view the subject.

Let's use the words "intrinsic" and "extrinsic" to categorize them.

Extrinsic motivators are goal-oriented. Consider some topic of "controversy X and the Bible" for example. Someone who wants to communicate a position on this topic to influence others is goal-oriented. They may then organize information around the topic in order to convince others that it is true. Maybe the goal is to reduce bigotry. Being goal oriented can be noble and conducted truthfully.

Intrinsic motivators are their own reward. Think of the buzz that someone might get when an idea clicks into place for the first time. The feeling of cleverness when presenting an ingenious hypothesis. The pleasure of reading some source that one had not encountered before. Or even just the comfortable familiarity of revisiting again some favorite passage or perspective.

I will focus on intrinsic motivations.

Zero Feedback Loops

In some subjects, we're able to get immediate feedback on our progress and how well we're doing. If you lose a chess game, you can think back to when your position started giving you less opportunities or when you lost material. If you lose in a sporting event, the possession of the ball and points scored gives immediate feedback. Even in areas where you might not actually develop real skill, such as betting on horses or trading stock options, you can get feedback to tell you whether you're actually doing better or not.

That feedback loop is diminished if you have to wait years for a result, such as making long term predictions as a pundit. It's perhaps not surprising that meta studies of pundits do not find them any more reliable than predicting that everything will stay the same.

Then there are zero feedback situations. The best way to understand statements about this subject is that they are made in a zero feedback situation. Whatever you say, you will not have a chance to be proven wrong.

This isn't a happy situation. Feedback is valuable. Without it, we don't have any easy way to tell how well we're doing. We also don't have a justification to describe what we're doing as being in the same category as science. That's ok. I don't think it is science.

But, wait! Someone might say. Don't we sometimes find new artifacts in history? Isn't that feedback? Not meaningfully.

(1) We don't get new information after forming our hypothesis. There's a chance new relevant information turns up before we die and a chance that it doesn't at all. Therefore there's no feedback loop. We're not learning how to get better at what we're doing from this new data.

(2) Past finds are incorporated into the body of available data, which becomes just as stale and incapable of providing feedback as the one that came before it. The more you study, the more impossible it is for data to surprise you and provide real feedback.

So it's impossible to become more skillful in a natural way, of seeing where you made mistakes and correcting based on feedback from previously unseen data, the way you would if you were playing a sport, playing chess, or coming up with a hypothesis in a scientific field where you can run an experiment if you have the funding.

So, anything goes?

If it's not a scientific subject, and if we're intrinsically motivated, why not just say anything goes? Perhaps we will just play ideas one off against the other, none the better, none the worse. Perhaps that will let us come up with ideas that are more interesting, even? And some people are, I think, most comfortable in this kind of headspace.

I assume that there was a single, actual past that has led up to this point. On this assumption, there is a rich web of connections among the events of the past, cause and effect cascading onto cause and effect, telling a story that I want to learn more about. The most interesting and most detailed story possible to me is the one that is closest to the truth of the past. Why is that?

The more that the model of the past that we're using differs from the actual past, the fewer detailed, meaningful, and satisfying connections that we're able to make between the remains of the past and that model. Suppose that we're hopping on board with phantom time hypotheses, or thinking that all the classics were written in the middle ages, or coming up with some other idea that might sound interesting in the abstract (but seems divorced from reality). The description of the outline of this idea might sound exciting, but trying to piece it together with the remains of the past is dreary. A typical model of the past has a less jazzy outline, but it will make for a more enriching experience of reading those classics and making connections. We can understand each text better, how each relates to the previous, and how they relate to their historical context. That process of understanding can bring greater and more meaningful satisfaction.

Or suppose that we've made an error. Then we find some things that seem puzzling to us if what we previously assumed is true. It can be hard to notice this, of course. But when we do, refuting ourselves can be one of the most interesting exercises we can do here. Not only does it resolve those puzzlers, but having this point in mind can lead to other connections. And being closer to the truth is more likely to lead to other meaningful connections being discovered because you're tapping into that graph of the truth of the past that produced everything that remained of it.

Staying on the surface where all ideas are equal doesn't quite yield the same rewards. There are many ideas that might appear to link up well with a few points of data about the past but which don't repay much further thought. But if you're able to tug on those threads that lead into the truth of the past, that's where you'll start finding other things lining up in the most satisfying way.

The self as the measure of all things

Not everyone is comfortable with thinking of their own self as a contributor to the product of their study. They may be studying the wrong field. I can suggest mathematics as an alternative.

What are some of the verbs of historical study? Consider these two:

To interpret. Whether texts or material culture, interpretation is required.

To explain. Explanations appeal to our intuition about what would make sense.

If we're intrinsically motivated to study history, we know that this isn't a bad thing. Part of the appeal of history is that it allows us to engage in this kind of activity - interpreting and explaining - on a rich tapestry of source material. If we tried to eliminate the human and the subjective from history, we'd also eliminate essential parts of what makes it an activity that people like to engage in.

There is a subjective element to interpretation and explanation. Our attitude towards a person for example could affect how we interpret their behavior. If we don't like someone overall, we're more likely to fault someone personally for something that they do, but if we're friendly towards them we're more likely to write it down to a mistake if we don't like something that they do.

Because there is this human element involved, it makes sense to consider one's self as a contributor to the product of their study. Changes in attitude can result in shifts in what explanations someone perceives as more plausible and what interpretations someone considers more accurate.

We're often degrading ourselves and others

If we are denying the role of the self in historical study, it is not possible to perceive such study as an occasion with the opportunity for self-improvement. And such study may often be an occasion of one's own personal detriment. Consider whether you have ever seen any of these 16 things in one's self or others:
  • Covetousness
  • Ill-will
  • Anger
  • Hostility
  • Contempt
  • Insolence
  • Envy
  • Avarice
  • Deceit
  • Fraud
  • Obstinacy
  • Rivalry
  • Conceit
  • Arrogance
  • Vanity
  • Negligence
I'm certainly guilty.

I'm not sure that anyone has to undertake any kind of historical study. But if they are to do so, a good first step to minimizing harm, to one's own self or to others involved, while participating in historical study would be to recognize that there is a subjective element to this study. That is meaningless, of course, unless it turns inward. It applies to my interpretations, explanations, and judgments.

Historical study and self-improvement

The subject of this forum is especially capable of creating these kinds of entanglements and failings due to the many different ways in which one can be influenced. There can be a particularly complex intersection of controversies, personal history, community history, intellectual development, political and religious development, literary aesthetics, attitudes, distastes, preferences, allegiances, disavowals, grudges, disappointments, and interpersonal judgments that can all converge on this subject. We are all entangled in multiple ways when thinking about these topics whether we acknowledge it or not.

As mentioned, there is no actionable and objective feedback loop that will consistently tell you if you're incorrect when you're studying these things. But in many ways what you are producing as the result of this study - whatever you think about expressing on the basis of it - is at least partly a reflection on your own self at a moment in time. This provides room for introspection.

As mentioned, I'm not sure that anyone has to undertake any kind of historical study. It is rife with opportunity for the kind of problems just listed above. It can be considered whether it would be better to withdraw from it.

If it is undertaken, then self reflection is possible. A better understanding of one's own self and one's own failings when trying to study the topic is possible, even if an immediate feedback loop based on the ostensible topic is not. It might even possibly be a path to self-improvement precisely because it is such a difficult and fraught topic. Add in the additional complications of discussing it publicly in an open forum, and it can be a constant lesson in one's own faults, whether avoided or indulged. It is by avoiding them that we improve.

What was that?

A lot of what gets expressed as study happens without an explicit context. Why do it? What to think about while doing it? What are you doing? What are the pitfalls? I don't believe that I have articulated these questions quite so clearly before, and I haven't really found anything addressing them either. So these are my notes when I attempted to think about these questions more clearly. If you can think of anything that has discussed this kind of thing before, or if you have your own thoughts, please feel free to share them.

Re: Zen and the Art of Historical Study

Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 4:56 am
by Secret Alias
All the Qualuude-like inspired good vibes of the above post sponsored by ChatGPT. ChatGPT. We make posts MELLOW OUT.

Re: Zen and the Art of Historical Study

Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 8:01 pm
by GakuseiDon
Origen writes along the same lines regarding the problems with the study of history in terms of Scriptures:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... en161.html

CHAP. XLII.

Before we begin our reply, we have to remark that the endeavour to show, with regard to almost any history, however true, that it actually occurred, and to produce an intelligent conception regarding it, is one of the most difficult undertakings that can be attempted, and is in some instances an impossibility. For suppose that some one were to assert that there never had been any Trojan war, chiefly on account of the impossible narrative interwoven therewith, about a certain Achilles being the son of a sea-goddess Thetis and of a man Peleus, or Sarpedon being the son of Zeus, or Ascalaphus and Ialmenus the sons of Ares, or AEneas that of Aphrodite, how should we prove that such was the case, especially under the weight of the fiction attached, I know not how, to the universally prevalent opinion that there was really a war in Ilium between Greeks and Trojans?

And suppose, also, that some one disbelieved the story of OEdipus and Jocasta, and of their two sons Eteocles and Polynices, because the sphinx, a kind of half-virgin, was introduced into the narrative, how should we demonstrate the reality of such a thing? And in like manner also with the history of the Epigoni, although there is no such marvellous event interwoven with it, or with the return of the Heracleidae, or countless other historical events. But he who deals candidly with histories, and would wish to keep himself also from being imposed upon by them, will exercise his judgment as to what statements he will give his assent to, and what he will accept figuratively, seeking to discover the meaning of the authors of such inventions, and from what statements he will withhold his belief, as having been written for the gratification of certain individuals.

And we have said this by way of anticipation respecting the whole history related in the Gospels concerning Jesus, not as inviting men of acuteness to a simple and unreasoning faith, but wishing to show that there is need of candour in those who are to read, and of much investigation, and, so to speak, of insight into the meaning of the writers, that the object with which each event has been recorded may be discovered.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04124.htm

But, that our meaning may be ascertained by the facts themselves, let us examine the passages of Scripture. Now who is there, pray, possessed of understanding, that will regard the statement as appropriate, that the first day, and the second, and the third, in which also both evening and morning are mentioned, existed without sun, and moon, and stars— the first day even without a sky? And who is found so ignorant as to suppose that God, as if He had been a husbandman, planted trees in paradise, in Eden towards the east, and a tree of life in it, i.e., a visible and palpable tree of wood, so that anyone eating of it with bodily teeth should obtain life, and, eating again of another tree, should come to the knowledge of good and evil? No one, I think, can doubt that the statement that God walked in the afternoon in paradise, and that Adam lay hid under a tree, is related figuratively in Scripture, that some mystical meaning may be indicated by it. The departure of Cain from the presence of the Lord will manifestly cause a careful reader to inquire what is the presence of God, and how anyone can go out from it.

But not to extend the task which we have before us beyond its due limits, it is very easy for anyone who pleases to gather out of holy Scripture what is recorded indeed as having been done, but what nevertheless cannot be believed as having rea­sonably and appropriately occurred according to the historical account. The same style of Scriptural narrative occurs abundantly in the Gospels, as when the devil is said to have placed Jesus on a lofty mountain, that he might show Him from thence all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them. How could it literally come to pass, either that Jesus should be led up by the devil into a high mountain, or that the latter should show him all the kingdoms of the world (as if they were lying beneath his bodily eyes, and adjacent to one mountain), i.e., the king­doms of the Persians, and Scythians, and Indians? Or how could he show in what manner the kings of these kingdoms are glorified by men?

And many other instances similar to this will be found in the Gospels by anyone who will read them with atten­tion, and will observe that in those narratives which appear to be literally recorded, there are inserted and interwoven things which cannot be admitted his­torically, but which may be accepted in a spiritual signification.


Re: Zen and the Art of Historical Study

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2024 5:59 pm
by Leucius Charinus
Peter Kirby wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 9:39 pm Let's start at the beginning.

What are we doing here?

///

What was that?

A lot of what gets expressed as study happens without an explicit context. Why do it? What to think about while doing it? What are you doing? What are the pitfalls? I don't believe that I have articulated these questions quite so clearly before, and I haven't really found anything addressing them either. So these are my notes when I attempted to think about these questions more clearly. If you can think of anything that has discussed this kind of thing before, or if you have your own thoughts, please feel free to share them.
Guidance is often useful. The problem then becomes who or what one uses as guides to the field of ancient history. I have no problem naming my own guides. For the modern epoch I am guided by Arnaldo Momigliano who is often regarded as a "continuator" of Edward Gibbon, and generally regarded as one of, if not the foremost of the ancient historians of the 20th century. For the epoch of late antiquity I am guided by the 4th century historian Ammianus Marcellinus.

Having made this preface (which to some may reveal bias) I'd contribute here by quoting Momigliano:

"But I have good reason to distrust any historian who has nothing new to say or who produces novelties, either in facts or in interpretations, which I discover to be unreliable. Historians are supposed to be discoverers of truths. No doubt they must turn their research into some sort of story before being called historians. But their stories must be true stories. [...] History is no epic, history is no novel, history is no propaganda because in these literary genres control of the evidence is optional, not compulsory” [1]

[1] Arnaldo Momigliano, The rhetoric of history, Comparative Criticism, p. 260

The key here is the proposition that "Historians are supposed to be discoverers of truths." If we are to discuss "Zen and the Art of Historical Study" then I'd liken this to archery. The historians are like archers shooting at a target. The central bull's eye is the historical truth. This is the ultimate central target.

Around this central (Zen?) target of "historical truth" are a number of concentric rings. The closest ring I would name as "primary evidence". The next closest ring I would name as "secondary evidence". The third as "tertiary evidence". I am not sure whether there need to be any other concentric rings around the center. Others may chime in here.

That FWIW is my contribution at the moment.