Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

https://fromchristtojesus.org/us/today.htm#theories

It gives a good classification of the various theories:



Only error: the title "from Christ to Jesus" is surely consistent with the Richard Carrier's mythicism. Only not prima facie so with the radical critics (but only secunda facie).

Bro's writing like it's the 1990s and it's a fresh idea instead of a bloated corpse that is ready to be put to rest.

Can you be more specific about who is writing as "a bloated corpse that is ready to be put to rest"? I assume that you mean Earl Doherty but I may be wrong.

Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:15 pm Bro's writing like it's the 1990s and it's a fresh idea instead of a bloated corpse that is ready to be put to rest.

A 'bloated corpse that is ready to be put to rest'....

Never a truer word spoken....

I don't know more than before about who would be the corpse etc.

Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:41 pm Can you be more specific about who is writing as "a bloated corpse that is ready to be put to rest"? I assume that you mean Earl Doherty but I may be wrong.

Giuseppe, it's the Carrier type mythicist theory that needs to be put to rest.

An earlier post of mine:



Pure Imagination
Gene Wilder

Come with me and you'll be
In a world of pure imagination
Take a look and you'll see
Into your imagination

We'll begin with a spin
Traveling in the world of my creation
What we'll see will defy
Explanation

If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Want to change the world?
There's nothing to it

There is no life I know
To compare with pure imagination
Living there, you'll be free
If you truly wish to be

If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Want to change the world?
There's nothing to it

There is no life I know
To compare with pure imagination
Living there, you'll be free
If you truly wish to be

maryhelena wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:14 pm

Giuseppe, it's the Carrier type mythicist theory that needs to be put to rest.

only if the epistles are all fabricated "in the school of Marcion", as the only academic position that places the epistles in the second century assumes, pace mlinssen and pace Carrier.

Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:25 am

maryhelena wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:14 pm

Giuseppe, it's the Carrier type mythicist theory that needs to be put to rest.

only if the epistles are all fabricated "in the school of Marcion", as the only academic position that places the epistles in the second century assumes, pace mlinssen and pace Carrier.

Many years ago I used to say to Doherty - don't put all your eggs in a Pauline basket. That still stands as a criticism of Carrier.

Why? Because interpreting Pauline theology/philosophy at the expense of the gospel story is not only foolhardy - it is downright dangerous for ones mental health. Imagination does play a part in our lives, it influences our thinking and creativity. However, being such a powerful force it can also lead one astray by ignoring our physical reality. We don't just live in our heads. We have to comprehend our physical reality before giving way to pure imagination. Pure imagination without any consequence for living on terra-firma might be entertainment -
but it's not a healthy diet for either social or personal growth/development.

As Carrier says in the title of his big book - we may well have reason to doubt the historicity of the gospel Jesus figure - but that doubt does not necessarily lead to a Jesus from outer space theory. That theory is pure imagination, nothing more than a theological type reading of Paul. Being such it is as open to doubt as the theory of a historical gospel Jesus. Consequently, the Carrier type mythicists and the Jesus historicists both present theories that don't remove the issue of doubt. Hence, of course, the ongoing questions regarding the New Testament story.

Its not a case of Pauline philosophical ideas verse the gospel Jesus story. Our humanity requires that we think, that we use our intellect, as well as we experience our physical reality. Pauline philosophy, on it's own, however interpreted, is useless if it cannot move from it's intellectual context, if it cannot, as it were, come down to earth. The expression ''putting on flesh' - suggests that our ideas need to become expressed in some sort of concert reality. (one could say that the gospel Jesus was an idea given 'flesh' - which makes more sense to modern ears than an outer space spirit creature became flesh as a human man....)

Anyway, Giuseppe, if we are seeking early christian origins - Jesus from outer-space will hinder that research rather than enable it.

Sorry, no. Richard Carrier is simply right under the condition of the authenticity of the epistles.

That is in the same time the his greatness and the his decadence.

My prophecy: Richard Carrier will behave as the last of the Christian apologists when the authenticity of the pauline epistles will be put in doubt by at least a academic.

"At least" is extraordinarily expected by a category that has proved again and again to be particularly blind to changements of paradigm.

Some of the secular treatment is modern and very much to the point. For example: