Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Like to Theodore the subject is esoteric exegesis. Hence their common abrupt ending.

What exactly are you arguing? Are you claiming that the Letter to Theodore must have a postscript or goodbye because it is an authentic correspondence from antiquity, or are you suggesting that because Morton Smith forged the letter, he understands what it was intended to be or what it truly is? These are two different arguments. Given my familiarity with your perspective, I believe you are advocating for the second option, which means we are essentially talking past each other.

This is how the forgery hypothesis has operated for the last 40 years:

1. Claim that X, Y, or Z "proves" or suggests the letter is fake.
2. Force anyone who doesn't accept that it is fake to "defend" against (1).

However, I operate differently. I am arguing on behalf of authenticity, or at least contending that Morton Smith couldn't be the forger because of X, Y, or Z. Responding with "X, Y, or Z don't count because Morton Smith is the forger" isn't a productive defense. It's just a way to garner agreement from like-minded thinkers. It suggests you aren't even trying to consider an opposing point of view.

It's ok if you and whoever else want to constant go back to "Morton Smith is the forger because Morton Smith is the forger." It's not really tackling what I am observing or saying.

Show me that Clement's Letter to Theodore is any more "abrupt" than Origen's Letter to Theodore. Then we're engaging in a productive manner.

On this point I am merely agreeing with Morton Smith, and others, that the "Letter to Theodore" is not a completed letter. Some other partially-quoted letters may also be incomplete, as letters.

I would argue that "μετέχοις δὲ σὺ, καὶ ἀεὶ αὔξοις τὴν μετοχὴν, ἵνα λέγῃς οὐ μόνον τό· μέτοχοι τοῦ χριστοῦ γεγόναμεν, ἀλλὰ καὶ· μέτοχοι τοῦ θεοῦ γεγόναμεν" is less of an ending than "Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἀληθὴς καὶ κατὰ τὴν ἀληθῆ φιλοσοφίαν ἐξήγησις." I also think that both letters end the way they do because the authors want to draw attention to the "secret exegesis" of scripture. This doesn't mean that everyone who wrote a letter without a goodbye did so to highlight the unspoken, but in these two letters, it was intentional.

I have to thank you above all others Stephen. You make me a better man.

Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐπιβουλὴ is the ending of a Greek letter https://pinakes.irht.cnrs.fr/notices/cote/63939/

The end of Theodoret's opening chapter of the Epistle to the Romans.

Ἡ μὲν οὖν ὑπόθεσις τῆς ἐπιστολῆς ἐστιν αὕτη· ἀκριβέστερον δὲ πάντα ἡμᾶς ἡ κατὰ μέρος ἑρμηνεία διδάξει.

This is the argument of the letter. The exposition section by section will teach us everything more accurately.

Chapter not letter.

Why should there be a difference? If it is granted that not all letters end with a goodbye and sections of text can end with Ἡ μὲν οὖν, a letter is no different.

Socrates Scholasticus. 5.8 Καὶ κληροῦται Νεκτάριος μὲν τὴν μεγαλόπολιν καὶ τὴν Θρᾴκην· τῆς δὲ Ποντικῆς διοικήσεως Ἑλλάδιος ὁ μετὰ Βασίλειον Καισαρείας τῆς Καππαδοκῶν ἐπίσκοπος, Γρηγόριος ὁ Νύσσης ὁ Βασιλείου ἀδελφὸς, (Καππαδοκίας δὲ καὶ ἥδε πόλις,) καὶ Ὀτρήϊος ὁ τῆς ἐν Ἀρμενίᾳ Μελιτηνῆς τὴν πατριαρχίαν ἐκληρώσατο. Τὴν Ἀσιανὴν δὲ λαγχάνουσιν Ἀμφιλόχιος ὁ Ἰκονίου, καὶ Ὄπτιμος ὁ Ἀντιχείας τῆς Πισιδίας. Τὰ δὲ κατὰ τὴν Αἴγυπτον Τιμοθέῳ τῷ Ἀλεξανδρείας προσενεμήθη. Τῶν δὲ κατὰ τὴν ἀνατολὴν ἐκκλησιῶν τὴν διοίκησιν τοῖς αὐτῆς ἐπισκόποις ἐπέτρεψαν, Πελαγίῳ τε τῷ Λαοδικείας καὶ ∆ιοδώρῳ τῷ Ταρσοῦ, φυλάξαντες τὰ πρεσβεῖα τῇ Ἀντιοχέων ἐκκλησίᾳ, ἅπερ τότε παρόντι Μελιτίῳ ἔδοσαν. Ὥρισαν δὲ, ὥστε εἰ χρεία καλέσοι, τὰ καθ' ἑκάστην ἐπαρχίαν ἵνα ἡ τῆς ἐπαρχίας σύνοδος διοικῇ. Τούτοις καὶ ὁ βασιλεὺς ἐγένετο σύμψηφος. Ἡ μὲν οὖν σύνοδος τοιοῦτον ἔσχε τέλος.

To Nectarius therefore was allotted the great city and Thrace. Helladius, the successor of Basil in the bishopric of Cæsarea in Cappadocia, obtained the patriarchate of the diocese of Pontus in conjunction with Gregory Basil's brother, bishop of Nyssa in Cappadocia, and Otreïus bishop of Melitina in Armenia. To Amphilochius of Iconium and Optimus of Antioch in Pisidia, was the Asiatic diocese assigned. The superintendence of the churches throughout Egypt was committed to Timothy of Alexandria. On Pelagius of Laodicea, and Diodorus of Tarsus, devolved the administration of the churches of the East; without infringement however on the prerogatives of honor reserved to the Antiochian church, and conferred on Melitius then present. They further decreed that as necessity required it, the ecclesiastical affairs of each province should be managed by a Synod of the province. These arrangements were confirmed by the emperor's approbation. Such was the result of this Synod.

Again thank you Stephen. Invaluable. Photius's words imply the Stromata ended with

The Miscellanies,1 in eight books, contain an attack upon heresy and the heathen. The material is arranged promiscuously and the chapters are not in order, the reason for which he himself gives at the end of the seventh book in the following words: "Since these points have been thoroughly discussed, and our ethical formula has been sketched summarily and fragmentarily, as we promised, teachings calculated to kindle the flame of true knowledge being scattered here and there, so that the discovery of the sacred mysteries may not be easy to any one of the uninitiated," and so on. This, he himself says, is the reason why the subject-matter is so unsystematically arranged. Ἡ μὲν οὖν τοῦ διερριμμένως αὐτὰ κατατάξαι αὐτῷ αἰτία αὕτη, ὥς φησι, γέγονεν. In an old copy I have found the title of this work not only given as Miscellanies, but in full as follows : Miscellany of Gnostic Notes in accordance with the True Philosophy, books 1-8. The first seven books have the same title, and are identical in all the copies. The title of the eighth, however, varies, as does the subject-matter. In some copies it is called Who is the Rich Man that is saved? and begins, "Those who . . . laudatory speeches," etc.; in others it is called The Miscellanies, the eighth book, like the other seven, and begins, "But not even the oldest of the philosophers," etc. The work in some parts is unsound, but not like the Outlines, some of whose statements it refutes.

Clement is said to have written several other works, of which the following are mentioned by other writers: On Easter; On Fasting; On Evil-speaking; On the Ecclesiastical Canons, and against those who follow the Erroneous Doctrine of the Jews, dedicated to Alexander, bishop of Jerusalem. He flourished during the reign of Severus and his son Antoninus at Rome.

It would appear that Photius is citing the last words of the Stromateis. For our existing text ends:

7.18.110.4 Τούτων ἡμῖν προδιηνυσμένων καὶ τοῦ ἠθικοῦ τόπου ὡς ἐν κεφαλαίῳ
ὑπογραφέντος, σποράδην, ὡς ὑπεσχήμεθα, καὶ διερριμμένως τὰ ζώπυρα τῶν τῆς
ἀληθοῦς γνώσεως ἐγκατασπείραντες δογμάτων, ὡς μὴ ῥᾳδίαν εἶναι τῷ περιτυχόντι
τῶν ἀμυήτων τὴν τῶν ἁγίων παρα7.18.111.1 δόσεων εὕρεσιν, μετίωμεν ἐπὶ τὴν
ὑπόσχεσιν. ἐοίκασι δέ πως οἱ Στρωματεῖς οὐ παραδείσοις ἐξησκημένοις ἐκείνοις τοῖς
ἐν στοίχῳ καταπεφυτευμένοις εἰς ἡδονὴν ὄψεως, ὄρει δὲ μᾶλλον συσκίῳ τινὶ καὶ
δασεῖ κυπαρίσσοις καὶ πλατάνοις δάφνῃ τε καὶ κισσῷ, μηλέαις τε ὁμοῦ καὶ ἐλαίαις
καὶ συκαῖς καταπεφυτευμένῳ, ἐξεπίτηδες ἀναμεμιγμένης τῆς φυτείας καρποφόρων
τε ὁμοῦ καὶ ἀκάρπων δένδρων διὰ τοὺς ὑφαιρεῖσθαι καὶ κλέπτειν τολμῶντας τὰ
ὥρια, ἐθελούσης 7.18.111.2 λανθάνειν τῆς γραφῆς. ἐξ ὧν δὴ μεταμοσχεύσας καὶ
μεταφυτεύσας ὁ γεωργὸς ὡραῖον κατακοσμήσει παράδεισον καὶ ἄλσος ἐπιτερπές.
7.18.111.3 οὔτ' οὖν τῆς τάξεως οὔτε τῆς φράσεως στοχάζονται οἱ Στρωματεῖς, ὅπου
γε ἐπίτηδες καὶ τὴν λέξιν οὐχ Ἕλληνες εἶναι βούλονται καὶ τὴν τῶν δογμάτων
ἐγκατασπορὰν λεληθότως καὶ οὐ κατὰ τὴν ἀλήθειαν πεποίηνται, φιλοπόνους καὶ
εὑρετικοὺς εἶναι τοὺς <ἀναγιγνώσκοντας> εἴ τινες τύχοιεν παρασκευάζοντες. πολλὰ
γὰρ τὰ δελέατα καὶ ποικίλα διὰ τὰς τῶν ἰχθύων διαφοράς. 7.18.111.4 Καὶ δὴ μετὰ τὸν
ἕβδομον τοῦτον ἡμῖν Στρωματέα τῶν ἑξῆς ἀπ' ἄλλης ἀρχῆς ποιησόμεθα τὸν λόγον.

"As we have previously indicated and briefly outlined the ethical aspect as if in summary, scattering sporadically, as we promised, the sparks of doctrines of true knowledge, so that the discovery of the holy traditions would not be easy for the uninitiated who happen to come across them, let us move on to the promise. The Stromata, in a way, do not resemble those well-cultivated gardens planted in rows for the pleasure of the eyes but are more like a shaded and dense mountain covered with cypresses and plane trees, laurel and ivy, mixed with apple trees, olive trees, and fig trees, with the planting intentionally mingled with fruit-bearing and non-fruit-bearing trees to deter and prevent those who dare to steal the ripe fruits, desiring the writing to remain hidden. From these, the farmer will transplant and replant, adorning a beautiful paradise and a delightful grove. Thus, the Stromata do not aim for order or elegance of expression, where they deliberately avoid Greek vocabulary and have scattered the doctrines secretly and not according to the truth, preparing the diligent and ingenious readers who might happen upon them. For there are many varied lures due to the differences among the fish. And after this seventh Stromata, we will begin the discourse of what follows from a different starting point."

This line Ἡ μὲν οὖν τοῦ διερριμμένως αὐτὰ κατατάξαι αὐτῷ αἰτία αὕτη, ὥς φησι, γέγονεν does not appear in our edition of the Stromateis. I think it might be the original ending or at least it might be worth considering that possibility.