Johannine letter as first layer of Gospel of John
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 5:41 am
I want to further develop something I proposed in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=12348
Bascially, my hypothesis is that what we call the "Gospel of John" very likely originated as a letter attributed to John or about the teachings of John. The "John" of this letter was "John the Baptist". The original identity of "John" was "the Baptist", but this identity was later taken over by "John Zebedee".
The "Gospel according to John" was, I believe, the first writing called a "Gospel", but this "Gospel" was not originally a narrative, it was rather a letter or collection of teachings from "John the Baptist". Very likely, the "Gospel according to John" was written in response to the Pauline letter collection. The Pauline letters provided a gospel according to Paul. John and Paul had competing ministries. So in response to the Pauline writings that laid out the gospel according to Paul, someone put out a letter collection putting forward the "Gospel according to John".
So we begin with a letter about the teachings of John the Baptist as the first thing called "The Gospel According to John". The first narrative about Jesus was what can be called proto-Mark, and in this narrative, John the Baptist is a character that introduces Jesus. But after the narrative about Jesus is written, the "Gospel according to John" is converted into a narrative itself, borrowing from proto-Mark and converting the teachings of John into teachings of Jesus.
This can be seen in the Gospel of John where Jesus speaks about himself in the third person. Throughout the Gospel of John, Jesus speaks in both the first person and third person. I suggest that the first person dialog is the addition of a later writer, while the third person dialog is the teachings of John that have been put into the mouth of Jesus.
Below is a very crude reconstruction of what the original "Gospel according to John" may have looked like:
So the original letter would have looked something like this.
Compare this to 1 John 1:
Notice in John 3 that Jesus says, "We speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen." Sounds a lot like the opening of 1 John.
I think this provides a solid framework for understanding the origins of Christian literature. What emerges from this is an understanding that there were two primary ministries or communities: A Pauline ministry and a Johannine ministry. The John of the original Johannine ministry was "the Baptist". Both communities produced literature in the name of their patron apostle. Over time and through the production of literature, teachings from these apostles were attributed to Jesus himself. With creation of the orthodox version of the Gospel of John, the identity of John the Baptist was transferred to "John Zebedee" a supposed "disciple" of Jesus.
Bascially, my hypothesis is that what we call the "Gospel of John" very likely originated as a letter attributed to John or about the teachings of John. The "John" of this letter was "John the Baptist". The original identity of "John" was "the Baptist", but this identity was later taken over by "John Zebedee".
The "Gospel according to John" was, I believe, the first writing called a "Gospel", but this "Gospel" was not originally a narrative, it was rather a letter or collection of teachings from "John the Baptist". Very likely, the "Gospel according to John" was written in response to the Pauline letter collection. The Pauline letters provided a gospel according to Paul. John and Paul had competing ministries. So in response to the Pauline writings that laid out the gospel according to Paul, someone put out a letter collection putting forward the "Gospel according to John".
So we begin with a letter about the teachings of John the Baptist as the first thing called "The Gospel According to John". The first narrative about Jesus was what can be called proto-Mark, and in this narrative, John the Baptist is a character that introduces Jesus. But after the narrative about Jesus is written, the "Gospel according to John" is converted into a narrative itself, borrowing from proto-Mark and converting the teachings of John into teachings of Jesus.
This can be seen in the Gospel of John where Jesus speaks about himself in the third person. Throughout the Gospel of John, Jesus speaks in both the first person and third person. I suggest that the first person dialog is the addition of a later writer, while the third person dialog is the teachings of John that have been put into the mouth of Jesus.
Below is a very crude reconstruction of what the original "Gospel according to John" may have looked like:
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4 in him was life,[a] and the life was the light of all people. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He himself was not the light, but he came to testify to the light. 9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
...
John 3:
11 We speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven.
31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted his testimony has certified this, that God is true. 34 He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.
3 ... No one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above. No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. You must be born from above. 8 The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. 17 Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. 21 But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.
John 5:
19 ... I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. 20 The Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing; and he will show him greater works than these, so that you will be astonished. 21 Indeed, just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomsoever he wishes. 22 The Father judges no one but has given all judgement to the Son, 23 so that all may honour the Son just as they honour the Father. Anyone who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him. 24 Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgement, but has passed from death to life.
25 ... I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; 27 and he has given him authority to execute judgement, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
etc...
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4 in him was life,[a] and the life was the light of all people. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He himself was not the light, but he came to testify to the light. 9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
...
John 3:
11 We speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven.
31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted his testimony has certified this, that God is true. 34 He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.
3 ... No one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above. No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. You must be born from above. 8 The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. 17 Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. 21 But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.
John 5:
19 ... I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. 20 The Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing; and he will show him greater works than these, so that you will be astonished. 21 Indeed, just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomsoever he wishes. 22 The Father judges no one but has given all judgement to the Son, 23 so that all may honour the Son just as they honour the Father. Anyone who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him. 24 Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgement, but has passed from death to life.
25 ... I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; 27 and he has given him authority to execute judgement, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
etc...
So the original letter would have looked something like this.
Compare this to 1 John 1:
1 We declare to you what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 this life was revealed, and we have seen it and testify to it, and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us— 3 we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 We are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him while we are walking in darkness, we lie and do not do what is true; 7 but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him while we are walking in darkness, we lie and do not do what is true; 7 but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Notice in John 3 that Jesus says, "We speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen." Sounds a lot like the opening of 1 John.
I think this provides a solid framework for understanding the origins of Christian literature. What emerges from this is an understanding that there were two primary ministries or communities: A Pauline ministry and a Johannine ministry. The John of the original Johannine ministry was "the Baptist". Both communities produced literature in the name of their patron apostle. Over time and through the production of literature, teachings from these apostles were attributed to Jesus himself. With creation of the orthodox version of the Gospel of John, the identity of John the Baptist was transferred to "John Zebedee" a supposed "disciple" of Jesus.