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Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:03 am
by AdamKvanta
The only records of Pilate's aqueduct incident are from Josephus Flavius. He doesn't date this incident directly, so we only know that it happened during Pilate's reign (traditionally dated to 26 - 36 CE). However, I argue, that Josephus wrote in The Jewish War that this incident happened at the same time when Herod Agrippa came to Rome. Now, Agrippa's arrival to Rome is usually dated to the spring of 36 CE (source) so that would mean the aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE too.

So did Josephus really write that these events happened at the same time? Let's look at the text (BJ 2.9.4-5):

After this he raised another disturbance, by expending that sacred treasure which is called Corban upon aqueducts, whereby he brought water from the distance of four hundred furlongs. At this the multitude had indignation; and when Pilate was come to Jerusalem, they came about his tribunal, and made a clamor at it. Now when he was apprized aforehand of this disturbance, he mixed his own soldiers in their armor with the multitude, and ordered them to conceal themselves under the habits of private men, and not indeed to use their swords, but with their staves to beat those that made the clamor. He then gave the signal from his tribunal [to do as he had bidden them]. Now the Jews were so sadly beaten, that many of them perished by the stripes they received, and many of them perished as trodden to death by themselves; by which means the multitude was astonished at the calamity of those that were slain, and held their peace.
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/te ... ection%3D4

In the mean time [Κἀν τούτῳ] Agrippa, the son of that Aristobulus who had been slain by his father Herod, came to Tiberius, to accuse Herod the tetrarch; who not admitting of his accusation, he staid at Rome, and cultivated a friendship with others of the men of note, but principally with Caius the son of Germanicus, who was then but a private person. Now this Agrippa, at a certain time, feasted Caius; and as he was very complaisant to him on several other accounts, he at length stretched out his hands, and openly wished that Tiberius might die, and that he might quickly see him emperor of the world. This was told to Tiberius by one of Agrippa's domestics, who thereupon was very angry, and ordered Agrippa to be bound, and had him very ill-treated in the prison for six months, until Tiberius died, after he had reigned twenty-two years, six months, and three days.
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/te ... ection%3D5

We see that Josephus used the Greek phrase "κἀν τούτῳ" which literally means "and during this". We can analyze it word by word:

κἀν -> καὶ ἐν
καὶ -> and
ἐν -> (time) in, at, or during the time of
τούτῳ -> this

Now, it seems "this" most likely refers to the previous event, i.e. the aqueduct incident. I think it would be a very strange grammar if Josephus meant something else.

Counterargument
The obvious counterargument to this reasoning would be that these two events are together only in The Jewish War but in Antiquities of the Jews, they are separated. So why would Josephus separate them if they happened at the same time? The answer is that in Antiquities of the Jews "Josephus organizes his text both chronologically and topically" as Ken Olson demonstrated here. So even if both events happened at the same time, they belong to different topics and that is why they are separated. The aqueduct incident belongs to the topic of calamities while the events surrounding Herod Agrippa belong rather to the topic of Judean rulership in general.

The Passover
The last part of this hypothesis is the question of whether the aqueduct incident happened during the Passover. We read in The Jewish War that the incident happened "when Pilate was come to Jerusalem". We also read there was a big crowd. So the assumption is that Pilate came to Jerusalem during one of the big Jewish holidays. Obviously, this is not enough to claim that it was the Passover. However, we have another source that describes a similar event that happened certainly during the Passover. And that event is the crucifixion of Jesus.

I'm aware that the year 36 CE is not one of the traditional dates of Jesus' crucifixion but I have already argued elsewhere that there are good arguments why the year 36 CE makes sense. So I will just focus on the similarity between the aqueduct incident and the crucifixion of Jesus. The key word is a sedition (στάσις). Both events are connected to a sedition. Let's read Josephus first (AJ 18.3.2):

But Pilate undertook to bring a current of water to Jerusalem, and did it with the sacred money, and derived the origin of the stream from the distance of two hundred furlongs. However, the Jews were not pleased with what had been done about this water; and many ten thousands of the people got together, and made a clamor against him, and insisted that he should leave off that design. Some of them also used reproaches, and abused the man, as crowds of such people usually do. So he habited a great number of his soldiers in their habit, who carried daggers under their garments, and sent them to a place where they might surround them. So he bid the Jews himself go away; but they boldly casting reproaches upon him, he gave the soldiers that signal which had been beforehand agreed on; who laid upon them much greater blows than Pilate had commanded them, and equally punished those that were tumultuous, and those that were not; nor did they spare them in the least: and since the people were unarmed, and were caught by men prepared for what they were about, there were a great number of them slain by this means, and others of them ran away wounded. And thus an end was put to this sedition [στάσις].
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/te ... ection%3D2

Now, we have the same Greek word "στάσις" used also in the New Testament:

Mark 15:7 (NASB20)
And the one named Barabbas had been imprisoned with the rebels [στασιαστῶν] who had committed murder in the revolt [στάσει].

Luke 23:18-19 (NASB20)
But they cried out all together, saying, “Away with this Man, and release to us Barabbas!” (He was one who had been thrown into prison for a revolt [στάσιν] that took place in the city, and for murder.)

It seems this is not a coincidence.

All comments are welcome.

Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:43 am
by Peter Kirby
This is a well-considered OP. Thank you.

Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:10 am
by Giuseppe
I would be inclined to agree in toto, if it wasn't for a detail that hardly can be ignored, in all the possible ways: there would have been none Jesus Barabbas in the Gospels if there hadn't been none Marcion proclaiming the news about Jesus the Son of an unknown Father ('Bar-Abbas') diametrically opposed to the Messiah promised by YHWH to the Jews as "king of the Jews".
▣ ◩ ◪ ▧ ◰

Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:55 am
by maryhelena
The Chronology and Tenure of Pontius Pilate, New Evidence for Re-dating the Period of Office. Judaea and Rome in Coins, 65 BCE - 135 CE. The Numismatic Circular, pp. 1-7. Kenneth Lönnqvist.

here

Whatever explanation is offered, the substitution of lead in the
coin alloy must have been intentional due to established technical
practices in ancient coin minting explained below. In our previous
suggestion mentioned, the change may denote that lead was used
for the construction of the infamous Roman aqueduct to
Jerusalem, as mentioned by Josephus (Jos. War 2.175 and Ant.
18.60.), as lead would have been used in such a typically Roman
project. Supposing this was the case, it would suggest that the
construction of the aqueduct began ca. 17/18 A.D. as Pilate
assumed office.

This whole issue is about dating Pilate. I have suggested that Pilate served two terms. Perhaps, however, even that suggestion is not the whole story about Pilate. Perhaps he never did have a second term in Judaea - perhaps someone, Josephus, has reversed the order of Gratus and Pilate - in order to support the Lukan chronology on Pilate. Yes, lots going on with Pilate - and taking the simple way out re the consensus dating is to misread both Josephus and Luke.

The TF is, within Antiquities, within a context of 19 c.e. And no, Ken, has not presented any evidence that the TF should be moved out of that context. That Josephus could move events around, i.e. not present them in chronological order, does not mean that he did this every time. To question his placing of an event, or a narrative, one needs evidence not arguments over Greek words or appeals to Lukan chronology.

Daniel Schwartz wrote the following:

‘’……anyone who wants to know about Josephus’ notions of history should want to know whether episodes Josephus chose to present as consecutive, and as (accordingly) causally meshed one with another, in fact happened one after the other. But any ability to answer that question is necessarily contingent upon our willingness to study other sources too, for it is only if they show the events were not consecutive that we can infer something about Josephus’ creativity in presenting them as if they were. Page 7. Reading the First Century.


Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:00 am
by Peter Kirby
maryhelena wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:55 am The TF is, within Antiquities, within a context of 19 c.e. And no, Ken, has not presented any evidence that the TF should be moved out of that context.
Here I outlined some evidence supporting the conclusion that Josephus didn't write the TF.

https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html

Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:58 am
by maryhelena
Peter Kirby wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:00 am
maryhelena wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:55 am The TF is, within Antiquities, within a context of 19 c.e. And no, Ken, has not presented any evidence that the TF should be moved out of that context.
Here I outlined some evidence supporting the conclusion that Josephus didn't write the TF.

https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html
Thanks for the link, Peter. I loved the quote from Steve Mason.

To have created the testimonium out of whole cloth would be an act of unparalleled scribal audacity.

As far as I'm aware Steve Mason has not moved away from that position. Not of course that Mason has the final say - but as a long time Josephan scholar his thinking on Josephus is worth considering. He could be wrong of course. Ken could be right. Scholars present their theories to the market place, after all that is all they can do. What becomes the consensus view is always time conditioned. Awaiting it's eventual undignified fall from grace. Intellectual evolution marches on in search of that illusive holy grail.... :)

Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2024 1:45 am
by AdamKvanta
maryhelena wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:55 am The Chronology and Tenure of Pontius Pilate, New Evidence for Re-dating the Period of Office. Judaea and Rome in Coins, 65 BCE - 135 CE. The Numismatic Circular, pp. 1-7. Kenneth Lönnqvist.

here

Whatever explanation is offered, the substitution of lead in the
coin alloy must have been intentional due to established technical
practices in ancient coin minting explained below. In our previous
suggestion mentioned, the change may denote that lead was used
for the construction of the infamous Roman aqueduct to
Jerusalem, as mentioned by Josephus (Jos. War 2.175 and Ant.
18.60.), as lead would have been used in such a typically Roman
project. Supposing this was the case, it would suggest that the
construction of the aqueduct began ca. 17/18 A.D. as Pilate
assumed office.

Was lead exclusively needed only for the aqueduct to Jerusalem? We know that Herod Antipas started building his Tiberias c. 18 CE. He didn't need any lead?

Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:14 am
by MrMacSon
maryhelena wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:58 am
Peter Kirby wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:00 am Here I outlined some evidence supporting the conclusion that Josephus didn't write the TF.
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html
Thanks for the link, Peter. I loved the quote from Steve Mason.

To have created the testimonium out of whole cloth would be an act of unparalleled scribal audacity.

As far as I'm aware Steve Mason has not moved away from that position ...

"that position" seems to be an ambiguous one
As in, it could be taken to mean: "To have created the testimonium out of whole cloth [was] an act of unparalleled scribal audacity" :P

Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:23 am
by maryhelena
AdamKvanta wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 1:45 am
maryhelena wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:55 am The Chronology and Tenure of Pontius Pilate, New Evidence for Re-dating the Period of Office. Judaea and Rome in Coins, 65 BCE - 135 CE. The Numismatic Circular, pp. 1-7. Kenneth Lönnqvist.

here

Whatever explanation is offered, the substitution of lead in the
coin alloy must have been intentional due to established technical
practices in ancient coin minting explained below. In our previous
suggestion mentioned, the change may denote that lead was used
for the construction of the infamous Roman aqueduct to
Jerusalem, as mentioned by Josephus (Jos. War 2.175 and Ant.
18.60.), as lead would have been used in such a typically Roman
project. Supposing this was the case, it would suggest that the
construction of the aqueduct began ca. 17/18 A.D. as Pilate
assumed office.

Was lead exclusively needed only for the aqueduct to Jerusalem? We know that Herod Antipas started building his Tiberias c. 18 CE. He didn't need any lead?
Pontius Pilate — An Aqueduct Builder? — Recent Findings and New Suggestions

Kenneth K. A. Silver


here

Re: Hypothesis: Pilate's aqueduct incident happened in 36 CE during the Passover

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2024 9:23 am
by AdamKvanta
maryhelena wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:23 am Pontius Pilate — An Aqueduct Builder? — Recent Findings and New Suggestions

Kenneth K. A. Silver


here
Thank you for another great article. I naively thought that aqueducts were made of lead, from start to end. But according to Lönnqvist, this wasn't the case:
... in standard Roman engineering terms lead would have been used only for those particular sections in the aqueduct that needed lead. What perhaps is surprising is that lead pipes or fistulae seem to have been used in Roman water systems mainly for the final part of the water system, usually where the aqueducts ended in the castellum divisiorium and further on in pipes close to the final destination of use.

Pontius Pilate — An Aqueduct Builder? — Recent Findings and New Suggestions, p. 470

So was any lead found in Jerusalem? No, even though archaeologists found five aqueducts. So how do we know that lead was used in this region at all? They found some lead pipes inside the city of Banias (Caesarea Philippi):
This important archaeological evidence of the early use of lead pipes was discovered at Banias in the north of Israel and dates probably to the first century A.D. The excavator reported that the water system found at Banias consisted of distribution pools and conical lead pipes. Two such pipes were discovered in one of the pools, while a third, broken one, in the second pool.

Pontius Pilate — An Aqueduct Builder? — Recent Findings and New Suggestions, p. 469

So this lead was found as part of a city water system, not as part of some external aqueduct. Caesarea Philippi was rebuilt in 3 BCE by Philip the Tetrarch. So we can assume the internal water system was rebuilt too. And they probably used lead then. Therefore, it makes so much sense that Tiberias, a city built anew by Herod Antipas in c. 18 CE, needed lead just like Caesarea Philippi needed it.

I speculate that only relatively new cities may have used lead for their water system. That would explain why there was no lead found in an old city like Jerusalem.