Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

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Secret Alias wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:29 pm The wording of this particular passage doesn't show a major theological or textual divergence that would suggest a different Marcionite gospel. Instead, the wording is close to what is found in canonical texts

There are lots of gospels that do show major theological and textual divergences, with text that is very different than the canonical gospels.

But that's not what we generally see in quotes from Marcion's gospel.

When do we just say Marcion's gospel actually did edit the synoptic texts conservatively and move on to the real apocryphal gospels instead of wasting more time on Marcion's bullshit?

And if Marcion's gospel was some kind of a derivative turd rather than actually being the special Gospel you're looking for, how would it even be possible for you to figure that out?

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Secret Alias wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 5:56 am Why are the orthodox wasting so much time on a gospel that's a turd? Why create a four-headed monster if you have the original gospel that Paul referred to as "my gospel"? Something doesn't add up.

It's turds all the way down.

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Secret Alias wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:04 am ... The word "gospel" comes a Semitic (Hebrew) root which means the announcement of the Jubilee. This fixed Jesus ministry on specific years, in 49 year cycles from the destruction of the temple which was/is ALWAYS connected to the sabbatical cycle. This connects Jesus's ministry to the Acta Pilati which was among the oldest Christian texts. ... Finding a Jesus who was active 21 CE who was the culmination of Qumran-type Jubilee messianism would be meaningful. ... This comes from Samaritan and Qumran research which is independent of any interest of my own. If Christianity was rooted in something ancient and lost, I think it would be meaningful.

All this could be true without Marcion having the good stuff.

Secret Alias wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:04 am But it's like solving a murder.

Just because Marcion was the butler doesn't mean that he had the ur-Gospel. It's overburdening the hypothesis to saddle it from the start as having an identification with Marcion's gospel.

Secret Alias » Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:04 am, above, wrote, in part:
"....The word "gospel" comes a Semitic (Hebrew) root which means the announcement of the Jubilee...."

FWIW, the Oxford English Dictionary online etymology for gospel is:

"Summary
Formed within English, by compounding.
Etymons: good adj., spell n.1


Old English godspel, doubtless originally gód spel (see good adj. and spell n.1), good tidings (compare láð spel evil tidings), a rendering of the Latin bona adnuntiatio (Corpus Gloss. Int. 117) or bonus nuntius (‘Euuangelium, id est, bonum nuntium, godspel’, Voc. c1050 in Wright-Wülcker 314/8), which was current as an explanation of the etymological sense of Latin evangelium, Greek εὐαγγέλιον (see evangely n.). Compare Gothic þiuþspillôn ‘to preach the gospel’ (εὐαγγελίζεσθαι), < þiuþ-s good + spillôn to announce (cognate with spell n.1). When the phrase gód spel was adopted as the regular translation of evangelium, the ambiguity of its written form led to its being interpreted as a compound, gŏd-spel, < god n. & int. + spel in the sense ‘discourse’ or ‘story’. The mistake was very natural, as the resulting sense was much more obviously appropriate than that of ‘good tidings’ for a word which was chiefly known as the name of a sacred book or of a portion of the liturgy. From Old English the word passed, in adapted forms, into the languages of the Germanic peoples evangelized from England: Old Saxon godspell, Old High German gotspell, Old Norse guð-, goðspiall; in each case the form of the first element shows unequivocally that it was identified with God, not with good. The Old Norse form has survived into modern Icelandic; the continental Germanic languages early discarded the word for adoptions of Latin evangelium.
Notes
Although the ó in Old English gódspel would necessarily in time have been shortened by the regular operation of phonetic law, it does not appear that this process could have taken place early enough to account for the form of the word in Old Saxon and Old High German. The form gŏdspel must therefore (as above explained) be due to a misinterpretation of the written form, originating before the word had any oral currency."