Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

neilgodfrey wrote:I'm not sure we should be looking for narrative-plausible explanations. Narrative plots and details require realism, characters acting with proper human motivations and being guided by clear purposes of plots with some verisimilitude.

I don't see much of any of this in the Gospel of Mark. I don't know that we have much reason to seek to explain Simon of C in these terms.

e.g. Simon of C is not actually taking up "his" cross at all so it's hard to seamlessly align this with the message that we have to take up our crosses to follow Jesus. Mark is too much into parable, hidden meanings, for that.
Neil, are you responding to me or to someone else? (If it is to me, I am not sure you understood what I meant, as what I suggested is all about dramatic irony, and certainly has nothing to do with character motivations or plot verisimilitude.)

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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote:I've already said that I think 'passerby' is a deliberate corruption of עברי (so he was originally identified as a 'Hebrew' rather than a passerby).
My sincere apologies for completely missing that post, even though it was addressing one of my comments.
I am not saying we have to believe the followers of Basilides but it really is a case of 'either/or' where our Mark cannot necessarily be accepted as the original text of the gospel. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
I certainly agree with this in principle; I think my comment, though, was intended to neutralize an argument that assumed Basilidean priority (in subject matter, at least, not necessarily in chronology).
The comment wasn't picked up by Matthew or Luke either. It could be a late addition to the text to deny the implication that Simon died on the Cross as a young man (implicit in the Romans deciding to take him to carry - hard to believe an old man would be chosen).
Young men can be fathers, too. There is no implication in the text that Alexander and Rufus were grown men at the time of the crucifixion; in other words, a comment that gives Simon sons in order to deny that he died on the cross fails unless it also specifies that he had no sons at the time in question. Unless I am misunderstanding you....
Perhaps more significant is the way Mark at first introduces Simon: "a passerby, Simon, a Cyrenian" (paragonta tina Simona Kyrenaion)

If this stands alone, it shows he did not expect his readers to know Simon personally. This is the way the other texts preserve the episode. By adding, however, that Simon was "the father of Alexander and Rufus" he shows that he expected his readers to know Simon's two sons. On the surface it appears that Alexander and Rufus may have been members of the Markan community. But there can be argued to be a disconnect - first introducing Simon as a paragonta and then suddenly by way of addition and qualification the exact opposite is manifested.
I do not see how being a passerby with respect to Jesus carrying his cross is the opposite of having sons known to the Marcan readership. To introduce Simon as a passerby and then reveal that he is actually related to someone you know... that is just one good way to tell the story.
Moreover I strongly suspect that Simon's original epithet was a deliberately bad translation of 'Hebrew.' Notice that in Psalm 129:8 = הָעֹבְרִ֗ים. Hebrew: a Hebrew = עברי.
Are you saying that העברִים in Psalm 129.8 [128.8 LXX] should be translated as the Hebrews, not as [the] passersby? Or are you just pointing to an example of this Hebrew word so that we can see that the Hebrew letters are the same for both words?
So in the original text he's just 'Simon a Hebrew.' Why Cyrene? The editor of Acts has a pronounced interest in Cyrene for some reason also.
The editor of Acts mentions it thrice, I believe.

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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

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In the search for more theories on Simon Cyrenian, I have turned to Michael Turton. Here I list the theories offered in his Historical Commentary on the Gospel of Mark.

1. A touch of realism (whether fictional or historical).
Brown (1994, p913-916) reviews some of the points. Simon is absent from the Gospel of Peter and from the Gospel of John. Roman practice, as described by ancient sources, was to force the prisoner to carry his own cross. Further, the writer presents Simon as "compelled" but it is unlikely, given Roman policy for respecting local law, that the Roman soldiers would have forced a Jew to work on a major holiday like Passover. Yet we are never told Simon was Jew. Simon is a Greek name, along with Alexander, while Rufus is a Roman one. Nor would the soldiers have ordered Simon to help out of pity, since they had just abused and mocked Jesus. Brown's position is that perhaps Simon was ordered to help because Jesus was so weak the soldiers feared he might die before he arrived at the execution site. This position is viable whether one views the narrative as history or fiction.
2. A double of Simon Magus.
Price (2003, 319-20), argues that Simon of Cyrene is a double of Simon Magus, from the Philistine town of Gitta, who according to Epiphanius claimed to have undergone a passion as the Son of God. "Gitta" is easily confused with "Kittim," a term for Cyrene (Cyrenaica is in what is now Libya). Cyrene was a Gentile town, but a Jewish colony had been established there (Blount 1993, p179).
3. An ideal disciple.
Randel Helms (1988, p121-2) along with other scholars (Reinach, for example) has argued that Simon is the ideal apostle who is doing exactly what Jesus said a disciple must do in order to imitate him: take up his cross. Blount (1993) argues this same position from the point of view of rhetoric. "Simon is a sort of 'every-human' who participates in a discipleship centered on God's divine plan. Everyone cannot function as Jesus. Everyone can, however, function like Simon." Against this interpretation, however, it must be noted that Simon is compelled, and does not choose freely.
It would seem that some of echo Turton in our insistence on taking the compulsion seriously in our interpretations.

4. A double for Simon Peter.
Helms also observes that 8:34 follows on 8:33, in which Jesus famously calls Simon Peter "Satan." Donald Senior (1987,p116) points out that the phrase "take up the cross" is the same in both passages. Is Simon of Cyrene a double for Simon Peter? Jesus says that whoever would follow him must first deny himself; Peter instead denies Jesus. Has the writer of Mark piled up irony here, showing a Simon denying himself to take up his cross, even as another Simon denies Jesus? Has he injected a historical figure into the passage? Or did these events occur as written? There's no way to know. One connection between 8:34 and 15:21 is that the mention of "cross" in 15:21 is the first time in the Gospel since 8:34. Jesus has managed to make 3 Passion predictions without mentioning the term even once.
This is pretty close to what I suggested earlier today, and note the use of the term irony. Exactly so.

5. A naming of anonymous characters from the source material.
Another way to look at the names mentioned in 15:21 is to remind oneself that as tradition develops, names are generally given to unnamed characters. Thus the high priest's servant who loses an ear in Gethsemane is unnamed in Mark, but in John becomes Malchus. Similarly, the unnamed bandits crucified with Jesus are given a variety of names in later Christian literature. If Mark is working off a source, perhaps he is merely giving a name to a character that has no name in his source.
6. A symbolic sacrificial officiant.
T.E. Schmidt (1995) argues that Simon represents the person who accompanied the sacrificial bull in the processions, carrying an enormous double-bladed ax, the instrument of the victim's death.
7. A novelistic character of no importance.
Mary Ann Tolbert (1989), observing Mark's many affinities with ancient popular literature, writes: "With the exception of the hero and heroine and perhaps a couple of faithful servants (Xenophon) or a faithful friend (Chariton), all of the other characters in the ancient novels are minor and appear for an episode or two and then disappear." (p76) Simon of Cyrene may be, in the final analysis, simply one more minor figure whose job is to move the process along.
None of these ideas seems to deal with Alexander and Rufus, however.

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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

Post by Peter Kirby »

Can we add a number (8) then?

8. 'Prophecy historicized', with a touch of irony

Number (4) above motivates the name Simon (as irony) and the positioning of this saying in Mark 9 (after rebuking Peter) about taking up a cross if one is to follow Jesus, while the suggestion made in that other thread motivates the other details (as 'prophecy historicized').
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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

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Are you saying that העברִים in Psalm 129.8 [128.8 LXX] should be translated as the Hebrews, not as [the] passersby
עברִים = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews
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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

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Secret Alias wrote:
Are you saying that העברִים in Psalm 129.8 [128.8 LXX] should be translated as the Hebrews, not as [the] passersby
עברִים = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews
I understand that. What I am asking is what your point is regarding this term. I am missing something between the Hebrew term as found in the Hebrew scriptures and the Greek term for passerby. Are you suggesting that Mark wrote in Hebrew? That Mark mistranslated a Hebrew term? That some tradent before Mark did so? ...?

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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

Post by Secret Alias »

I don't think canonical Mark is the ur-gospel. There is a repeated tradition in the Church Fathers that a Hebrew text was the ur-gospel. If that is true then it is possible the orthodox translator either deliberately or accidentally mistranslated Simon's status as a Hebrew (= proselyte) and rendered it as 'passerby.'
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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

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καὶ ἀγγαρεύουσιν παράγοντά τινα Σίμωνα Κυρηναῖον ἐρχόμενον ἀπ' ἀγροῦ, τὸν πατέρα Ἀλεξάνδρου καὶ Ῥούφου, ἵνα ἄρῃ τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ. Mark

Ἐξερχόμενοι δὲ εὗρον ἄνθρωπον Κυρηναῖον ὀνόματι Σίμωνα· τοῦτον ἠγγάρευσαν ἵνα ἄρῃ τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ. Matthew

Καὶ ὡς ἀπήγαγον αὐτόν, ἐπιλαβόμενοι Σίμωνά τινα Κυρηναῖον ἐρχόμενον ἀπ’ ἀγροῦ ἐπέθηκαν αὐτῷ τὸν σταυρὸν φέρειν ὄπισθεν τοῦ Ἰησοῦ. Luke

I know this is an old problem, but even when you look at these passages side by side - how do you get so much variation if Matthew and Luke were copying Mark? It's more like a deliberate attempt at plagiarism (trying to say things in deliberately different ways but you can still see - once they are side by side - deliberate copying was going on). Never ceases to amaze me.
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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

Post by Secret Alias »

If Matthew and Luke were really copying canonical Mark why leave out the bit about Alexander and Rufus? I can't get over that. It's tempting to say it was never there in their copies of the ur-text. But you can't say anything definitively of course.
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Re: Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.

Post by Secret Alias »

And if Matthew and Luke knew a text that didn't mention these two other people, the identification of Simon as the father of X and Y might be immaterial to understanding the gospel's literary construction.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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