Saint Mark, according to some Coptic historians, was from Cyrene.
Yes it is true that the Wikipedia page for Severus ibn al-Muqaffa identifies him among other things as a 'historian' owing I guess to the fact that he wrote the History of the Coptic Patriarchs. But is a compilation of nearly worthless legends qualify the compiler to understood as a 'historian'? Is Eusebius really a 'historian'? I don't mean to quibble unnecessarily but I think Severus is more a compiler of stories, a chronicler rather than a historian unless you define the term so loosely that it would equally apply to 'faith healers' making them 'doctors' or 'medical practitioners'
The Copts began as an oppressed sect within the Christian family and then with the Islamic takeover continued to be downtrodden. Severus was a bishop of a large city in Upper Egypt c. end of the tenth century. The community likely experienced some relief from the merciless oppression owing to the rulers of Egypt being Shi'ite. It's not a history in the modern sense of the word and neither is Severus a historian by the same standard.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Ok, let's say we can throw out the Coptic belief that Mark was from Cyrene. We still have some interesting connections:
1. The author of Mark, traditionally believed to be Mark, implies that his readers knew the sons of a man from Cyrene. Therefore, he may well have known them also.
2. John Mark joined a group of Cyrenians to spread the gospel along with Paul in Antioch, where the name 'Christians' originated, according to Acts.
3. Simeon also called Niger, was part of that early Church in Antioch, according to Acts. The name Niger suggests he too was from Africa..his being singled out suggests strongly that he too travelled to Antioch as an apostle. Perhaps too the grammar in Acts 13:1 allows for he and Lucius to both be from Cyrene
4. Paul knew a Rufus who lived in Rome before Paul went to Rome. Given Paul's affinity for Rufus' mother, it appears Paul knew Rufus' family well, and spent time with them in some other area.
5. If Mark was writing for believers in Rome, the Rufus he references may well have lived in Rome also.
Even if Mark wasn't from Cyrene, as the Coptics believe to be the case, the above statements lend themselves to a narrative that ends with the conclusion that both Paul and Mark knew Simon from Cyrene and his family as fellow early believers. Sure I favor this conclusion but I will be the first to admit that it is speculative - what isn't?
Some qs:
How might the writer of Mark have come to know Rufus and Alexander?
If the sons of the man who carried the cross were early believers, might not that man - Simon - also have been an early believer?
How did Paul come to know John Mark?
How did Paul come to know his Rufus and his mother? Did he know the father too?
If the father had died would that explain why Paul didn't mention him? Would it explain why Mark mentioned the sons?
How many early Christians named Rufus lived in Rome?
If there was a prominent Rufus in Rome that Mark's readers would have known that was different than the Rufus Paul asked the Roman believers to greet, might we have expected Paul to have made a distinction between the two?
TedM wrote:Ok, let's say we can throw out the Coptic belief that Mark was from Cyrene. We still have some interesting connections:
1. The author of Mark, traditionally believed to be Mark, implies that his readers knew the sons of a man from Cyrene. Therefore, he may well have known them also.
2. John Mark joined a group of Cyrenians to spread the gospel along with Paul in Antioch, where the name 'Christians' originated, according to Acts.
3. Simeon also called Niger, was part of that early Church in Antioch, according to Acts. The name Niger suggests he too was from Africa..Perhaps too the grammar in Acts 13:1 allows for he and Lucius to both be from Cyrene
4. Paul knew a Rufus who lived in Rome before Paul went to Rome. Given Paul's affinity for Rufus' mother, it appears Paul knew Rufus' family well.
5. If Mark was writing for believers in Rome, the Rufus he references may well have lived in Rome also.
Even if Mark wasn't from Cyrene, as the Coptics believe to be the case, the above statements lend themselves to a narrative that makes sense.
How might the writer of Mark have come to know Rufus and Alexander?
If the sons of the man who carried the cross were early believers, might not that man - Simon - also have been an early believer?
How did Paul come to know John Mark?
How did Paul come to know his Rufus and his mother? Did he know the father too?
How many early Christians named Rufus lived in Rome?
If there was a prominent Rufus in Rome that Mark's readers would have known that was different than the Rufus Paul asked the Roman believers to greet, might we have expected Paul to have made a distinction between the two?
Good points, Ted. I want to play devil's advocate here and point out the frequency of the names Rufus and Sim(e)on:
"[wiki]Simon (given name)[/wiki] is a common name, from Hebrew שִׁמְעוֹן (Šimʻôn)...." Indeed, of the most common Jewish names of the period in Palestine, at any rate, Sim(e)on ranks #1.
"[wiki]Rufus (Roman cognomen)[/wiki] is one of the most common of the ancient Roman cognomina."
Does the high frequency of these names change anything in the list of coincidences, in your judgment?
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Good points, Ted. I want to play devil's advocate here and point out the frequency of the names Rufus and Sim(e)on:
"[wiki]Simon (given name)[/wiki] is a common name, from Hebrew שִׁמְעוֹן (Šimʻôn)...." Indeed, of the most common Jewish names of the period in Palestine, at any rate, Sim(e)on ranks #1.
"[wiki]Rufus (Roman cognomen)[/wiki] is one of the most common of the ancient Roman cognomina."
Does the high frequency of these names change anything in the list of coincidences, in your judgment?
Ben.
Definitely. I didn't know Rufus was a common name, so that might make some difference, but I still would wonder if there was a prominent early Christian that Mark's readers knew in Rome named Rufus, whether 1. Paul would not have known of him or 2. Paul knew of him but didn't distinguish him from 'his' Rufus when writing to Rome (presumably the same believers). I'm not sure either of those is likely. I would imagine that prior to going to Rome Paul was aware of all well known members of the church in Rome, especially if they were known to John Mark. I suspect there was a lot of talk among the early Christians about who the well-known members were. Paul would have been very interested in that, I think.
I knew Simon was common so that one doesn't affect my thinking. I think it is likely that Simeon the Niger traveled with Lucius from Cyrene to Antioch, given how it is presented in Acts 11 & 13. Whether that was the SAME Simon as the one who carried the cross I'm less comfortable saying.
Last edited by TedM on Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:05 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Sabellius the father of absolute monarchianism is said by some to be a bishop or priest of Cyrene. From Dionysius of Rome (according to Athanasius):
Next, I may reasonably turn to those who divide and cut to pieces and destroy that most sacred doctrine of the Church of God, the Divine Monarchy, making it as it were three powers and partitive subsistences and god-heads three. I am told that some among you who are catechists and teachers of the Divine Word, take the lead in this tenet, who are diametrically opposed, so to speak, to Sabellius’s opinions; for he blasphemously says that the Son is the Father, and the Father the Son, but they in some sort preach three Gods, as dividing the sacred Monad into three subsistences foreign to each other and utterly separate. For it must needs be that with the God of the Universe, the Divine Word is united, and the Holy Ghost must repose and habitate in God; thus in one as in a summit, I mean the God of the Universe, must the Divine Triad be gathered up and brought together. For it is the doctrine of the presumptuous Marcion, to sever and divide the Divine Monarchy into three origins,—a devil’s teaching, not that of Christ’s true disciples and lovers of the Saviour’s lessons. For they know well that a Triad is preached by divine Scripture, but that neither Old Testament nor New preaches three Gods.
Dionysius of Alexandria (according to Athanasius):
Next, Dionysius, who was Bishop of Alexandria, upon his writing against Sabellius and expounding at large the Saviour’s Economy according to the flesh, and thence proving against the Sabellians that not the Father but His Word became flesh, as John has said, was suspected of saying that the Son as a thing made and originated, and not one in essence with the Father
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Good points, Ted. I want to play devil's advocate here and point out the frequency of the names Rufus and Sim(e)on:
"[wiki]Simon (given name)[/wiki] is a common name, from Hebrew שִׁמְעוֹן (Šimʻôn)...." Indeed, of the most common Jewish names of the period in Palestine, at any rate, Sim(e)on ranks #1.
"[wiki]Rufus (Roman cognomen)[/wiki] is one of the most common of the ancient Roman cognomina."
Does the high frequency of these names change anything in the list of coincidences, in your judgment?
Ben.
Definitely. I didn't know Rufus was a common name, so that might make some difference, but I still would wonder if there was a prominent early Christian that Mark's readers knew in Rome named Rufus, whether 1. Paul would not have known of him or 2. Paul knew of him but didn't distinguish him from 'his' Rufus when writing to Rome (presumably the same believers).
What if during Paul's time there was only one Rufus of note in the Roman community but by Mark's time another Rufus was in the mix? Even on some pretty traditional dating schemes, a lot can happen between, say, 57 and some time after 70. Open the dates up a bit and things can change even more.
I knew Simon was common so that one doesn't affect my thinking. I think it is likely that Simeon the Niger traveled with Lucius from Cyrene to Antioch, given how it is presented in Acts 11 & 13. Whether that was the SAME Simon as the one who carried the cross I'm less comfortable saying.
What strikes me is how Mark 15.21 seems to imply that Rufus and Alexander were known to the author and his readership whereas Simon was not. After all, Simon is introduced as "a passerby" and then identified both by his place of origin and by his sons. It would seem that Simon needs an introduction, but his sons do not.
Arius, the archheretic was born c 256 CE in Cyrenica
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
