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Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:32 pm
by rakovsky
Giuseppe wrote:The entire point of going to see the tomb and find it empty is precisely the example number 78 of a long list of 77 body translation examples found in pagan literature.
Therefore the first who introduced a tomb - even if he did believe that Jesus is risen (especially because he did believe it!) - had to introduce a tomb in the story because that was 100% entirely expected for the object of a cult.
In the ancient cults, they might have done lots of things that were not necessarily translated into Christianity. The other cults worshiped graven statues of their gods, but the early Christians didn't do that.
Just because an ancient cult did something it doesn't mean Christianity had to.

Even if the ancient cults didn't have empty tombs, it would still be natural for Christianity to have one anyway. It's natural if Christianity teaches Jesus' bodily resurrection for Christianity to have an empty tomb story. Jesus died, so if you believe he was resurrected, it's only natural that you ask what happened to the body and what evidences led you to believe there was a bodily resurrection.

If he was buried in a common mass grave, the pharisees could still dig the body out a few days later if the apostles started to claim that the body disappeared. I think it's probably part of the original story, based on Acts 2. At least, they were saying it when the apostles were still around.

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:35 am
by Giuseppe
OK, in that particular chapter he didn't, but that chapter was dedicated to similarities between Christianity and paganism so that pagans could better understand Christian philosophy. He was not focusing on differences in that chapter and did not mention any in the chapter. The fact that he didn't in that chapter doesn't mean that he was not able to identify a difference or that he didn't elsewhere.
The critic may pause to consider: Could the apology indeed have admitted that the earliest Christians had composed Jesus' divine birth, dramatically tragic death, resurrection, and ascension within the earliest Christian Gospel tradition as fictive embellishments following the stock structural conventions of Greek and Roman mythology, specifically the narrative traditions of the fabled antique Mediterranean demigod? Would not such an admission have utterly crippled earliest Christian kerygma, at least as historians have typically imagined the so-called orthodox movement's claim in the first two centuries of the Common Era? The text becomes all the more disturbing when considering that the argument did not even qualify as an ''admission'' per se but merely arose as a statement in passing, as though commonly aknowledged both within and without Christian society. Indeed, the implied author even included himself, as well as Christians, as complicit in this mythopoietic enterprise: [a quote in Greek follows]. Did the earliest defense of Christianity deliver a candid assessment when stating that there was ''nothing unique'' or sui generis about these dominant framing contours of the Jesus narrative?
(Resurrection and Reception, p.2, my bold)


rakovsky wrote:
Giuseppe wrote:The entire point of going to see the tomb and find it empty is precisely the example number 78 of a long list of 77 body translation examples found in pagan literature.
Therefore the first who introduced a tomb - even if he did believe that Jesus is risen (especially because he did believe it!) - had to introduce a tomb in the story because that was 100% entirely expected for the object of a cult.
In the ancient cults, they might have done lots of things that were not necessarily translated into Christianity. The other cults worshiped graven statues of their gods, but the early Christians didn't do that.
Just because an ancient cult did something it doesn't mean Christianity had to.

Even if the ancient cults didn't have empty tombs, it would still be natural for Christianity to have one anyway. It's natural if Christianity teaches Jesus' bodily resurrection for Christianity to have an empty tomb story. Jesus died, so if you believe he was resurrected, it's only natural that you ask what happened to the body and what evidences led you to believe there was a bodily resurrection.

If he was buried in a common mass grave, the pharisees could still dig the body out a few days later if the apostles started to claim that the body disappeared. I think it's probably part of the original story, based on Acts 2. At least, they were saying it when the apostles were still around.
In the chapter [1 Cor 15, note that 1 Cor 15:4 assumes a tomb impliciter], Paul presupposed the reader's awareness of earliest Christian ''eyewitness'' accounts to Jesus' postmortem appearances.That is to say, one should not see Paul as the innovator of such stories; he merely joins a running list of prior Christians by whom such stories had already emerged. Paul employed the myth and its fusion with the standing, Judaic notion of a corporal ''Day of Resurrection,'' a tradition of altogether different origin, in order to embark on a short, philosophical treatise on the nature of ''raised'' bodies. Note also the expressed dòxa of the opening line of Paul's missive to the Christians of Galatia (1:1), honorific language of exaltatio elevating Jesus to demigod stature.
Additionally, one may observe several strained, faith-motivated efforts to argue for an extremely early beginning to this tradition, based upon Paul's travel accounts in Gal. 1-2. With the prevalence of apotheosis myth-making in royal consecratio, arguments based upon the earliness of the tradition, however speculative, prove to be of no consequence to the proposals of this book. Indeed, many if not most translated figures received the embellishment either immediately or soon after their respective deaths. Notwithstanding, the very subtext of Gal 1-2 belies any serious arguments for an allegedly harmonized ''orthodoxy'' or ''orthopraxy'' between Paul and Christian leadership in Judea (e.g, Peter, James and John).
(p.195-196, note 85, my bold)
Jesus died, so if you believe he was resurrected, it's only natural that you ask what happened to the body and what evidences led you to believe there was a bodily resurrection.
1) It is not certain (note I am assuming a historical Jesus for sake of discussion) if the concept of a bodily resurrection of Jesus precedes Paul (he was in conflict with the Pillars on many things, and continuity is not secure).
2) even if it precedes Paul, Miller's thesis is not confuted: ''many if not most translated figures received the embellishment either immediately or soon after their respective deaths''.

In other terms, if you see (as a fact ''beyond any reasonable doubt'', per Miller's analysis of 77 examples etc), that the Christians had any natural interest to join other mediterranean cultures by exalting their object of cult with the body translation stories etc (a natural act of literary exaltatio and consecratio of their own hero, not a conspiracy and not even an auto-suggestion), then it is not more possible to conclude so (''probably Jesus was buried'') because you cannot remove now the sound suspect that that emphasis on his burial in a tomb had the implicit goal of making just that literary implication (''tomb ---> empty tomb''). You need of independent evidence of a tomb for Jesus (in order to believe in a corporeal resurrection belief among earliest Christians).

Gospels don't give that evidence.

Paul doesn't give that evidence.

And note that Miller would make that conclusion even basing on 1 Cor 15 alone, without touching the Gospels.

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:36 am
by rakovsky
Giuseppe wrote:1) It is not certain (note I am assuming a historical Jesus for sake of discussion) if the concept of a bodily resurrection of Jesus precedes Paul (he was in conflict with the Pillars on many things, and continuity is not secure).
2) even if it precedes Paul, Miller's thesis is not confuted: ''many if not most translated figures received the embellishment either immediately or soon after their respective deaths''.

In other terms, if you see (as a fact ''beyond any reasonable doubt'', per Miller's analysis of 77 examples etc), that the Christians had any natural interest to join other mediterranean cultures by exalting their object of cult with the body translation stories etc (a natural act of literary exaltatio and consecratio of their own hero, not a conspiracy and not even an auto-suggestion), then it is not more possible to conclude so (''probably Jesus was buried'') because you cannot remove now the sound suspect that that emphasis on his burial in a tomb had the implicit goal of making just that literary implication (''tomb ---> empty tomb''). You need of independent evidence of a tomb for Jesus (in order to believe in a corporeal resurrection belief among earliest Christians).

Gospels don't give that evidence.
What you seem to be saying is that paganism and Christianity share empty tomb stories, so there was a literary motive for creating the empty tomb story. I can see that. But there are counterarguments against this being "the" motive for it.

1. There are other motives for an empty tomb besides some desire to emulate paganism, like the natural question of what would happen to the body, since Jews believed in bodily resurrection (eg. the Elijah and Lazarus stories).

2. Just because there is a similarity to paganism does not necessarily mean Christianity will adopt that similarity. eg. In the apostolic era there was not worship of statues. (It's an interesting, but separate question whether Roman Catholicism in the West accepted the same practice viz a viz statues of saints and Jesus.)

3. Even if it was adopted from paganism, it was still part of the apostles' story, because the empty tomb story was around in the gospels from 60-80 AD, and the apostles and their audiences were still alive then. In other words, even if this was not the very first story of the apostles, the empty tomb was still part of the apostles' teaching, albeit at a later moment. The empty tomb story is in all the gospels, even in the truncated version of Mark and in apocryphal ones like Gospel of Peter and the Gospel of the Hebrews.


Your answer is that I haven't PROVEN that these "other motives" in 1. "prove" the empty tomb story was original, nor does it "prove a negative" that paganism was NOT the source of the empty tomb story. But that misplaces the burden of proof. If one's thesis is that the empty tomb story came from paganism, the burden is on the proponent of that thesis to prove that this is "the" explanation, and not more obvious reasons, like the desire to prove that his body rose in accordance with Judaism's teaching on the bodily resurrection.

Further, if you look at Isaiah 53, it says that the Servant's body was assigned a grave with sinners and then with the rich. If he had only been laid with common criminals and not buried by Joseph, the verse wouldn't be fulfilled. And the apostles claimed that Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 53. So there is another Jewish nonpagan motive for the gospels' own version of burial and resurrection.
Paul doesn't give that evidence.

And note that Miller would make that conclusion even basing on 1 Cor 15 alone, without touching the Gospels.
I think Paul infers the empty tomb in 1 Cor 15:
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
What is the point of saying that he was buried? And how would they even know the body was buried (not cremated) if they didn't know where it was buried?
If the resurrection was spiritual only and the story of burial was not itself important, why would Paul mention it as a fundamental of the faith?
And what is the point of the third day for the resurrection? Acts explains that his resurrection fulfilled Psalm 16: the body would not decay.
Judaism taught that the body decays on the fourth day, as per the Lazarus story.
Psalm 16 says that the body would not decay. This is where the third day resurrection comes in. The resurrection was on the third day so that the body wouldnt decay in accordance with Psalm 16.

That's what Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 15: Bodily death, bodily burial, then on Day 3 before the decay sets in, he "arose", which in Judaism and in the gospels means a bodily resurrection like Elijah and Lazarus, respectively.

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:10 am
by theterminator
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
everyday there would have been a death and there would've been burial too. this is common knowledge. it does not say that the tomb was discovered.

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:38 am
by Giuseppe
1. There are other motives for an empty tomb besides some desire to emulate paganism, like the natural question of what would happen to the body, since Jews believed in bodily resurrection (eg. the Elijah and Lazarus stories).
In that case, if you could prove your premise (''natural question of what would happen to the body'' etc) the problem would be reduced to the more general question of historicity of Jesus. For example:
Gaius Flaminius

Source: Plutarch, Fab. 3.
fable: During the second Punic War, the former consul to the Roman senate, Gaius Flaminus Nepoos (a novus homo), commanded legions in Tuscany, defending against Hannibal's invasion. He himself fought heroically, it is written, but was slain in battle at Lake Trasimene. The famed Carthaginian commander and his men were unable to find the body of Flaminius, according to Plutarch; it had vanished.
Subthemes: Vanished /missing body.
(Resurrection and Reception, p. 53, my emphasis)

This would be, in my view, an independent evidence of an example of a ''natural question of what would happen to the body''. Until now, you don't have that kind of strong evidence for Jesus.

2. Just because there is a similarity to paganism does not necessarily mean Christianity will adopt that similarity. eg. In the apostolic era there was not worship of statues. (It's an interesting, but separate question whether Roman Catholicism in the West accepted the same practice viz a viz statues of saints and Jesus.)
but that similarity is confirmed by Justin himself as a fact that he did not even bother to questioning, if not by resorting to its absurd reference to demons inspiring the pagans. Miller puts his thesis in the field of ''probable'', not of merely ''possible''.

3. Even if it was adopted from paganism, it was still part of the apostles' story, because the empty tomb story was around in the gospels from 60-80 AD, and the apostles and their audiences were still alive then. In other words, even if this was not the very first story of the apostles, the empty tomb was still part of the apostles' teaching, albeit at a later moment. The empty tomb story is in all the gospels, even in the truncated version of Mark and in apocryphal ones like Gospel of Peter and the Gospel of the Hebrews.
Miller concedes even that that story was added by Christians well before Paul (see my above post). It was 100% expected, if you want very soon to apply on Jesus the conventional tropos of an exaltatio (especially if you want prove that Jesus is more strong than Caesar).
Your answer is that I haven't PROVEN that these "other motives" in 1. "prove" the empty tomb story was original, nor does it "prove a negative" that paganism was NOT the source of the empty tomb story. But that misplaces the burden of proof. If one's thesis is that the empty tomb story came from paganism, the burden is on the proponent of that thesis to prove that this is "the" explanation, and not more obvious reasons, like the desire to prove that his body rose in accordance with Judaism's teaching on the bodily resurrection.
Ok that the burden is on me etc, but Miller thinks that Justin, First Apology 21 is evidence of the sincere admission, by a Christian, of recognition that those stories were literary conventional embellishments common to all Mediterranean cultures. An admission that is corroborated by 77 examples of body translation episodes confirming Mark as the example number 78.
Further, if you look at Isaiah 53, it says that the Servant's body was assigned a grave with sinners and then with the rich. If he had only been laid with common criminals and not buried by Joseph, the verse wouldn't be fulfilled. And the apostles claimed that Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 53. So there is another Jewish nonpagan motive for the gospels' own version of burial and resurrection.
Even more so, the first Christian that did mention a tomb for Jesus had more reason to show that
''the resurrection tale ... did not operate as a defensible historical event in early Christian leterature, but as an etiological subject, symbol or metonym of this negotiation. Jesus, as [Greek words] (Rev 1.5, ''the first-bordn of the dead'), served as the principal literary vehicle registring the inchoate movement within the standing Jewish and broadly Mediterranean socio-philosophical fray. In this sense, the so-called orthodox narratives rendering Jesus' resurrection as physical were just as creative and deliberate as the so-called unorthodox treatments that rendered his raised state as psychical or pneumatic.
...
The works of the apologists and proponents of early Christian kerygma, such as Athenagoras's De resurrectione mortuorum and Tertullian's De resurrectione carnis, even when most vigorously addressing the subject of resurrection, did not attempt a case for historicity of their resurrection of their founding figure. Instead, the early Christian records spent a seemingly limitless supply of argumentation, waging a philosophical campaign over the nature of raised bodies.
(ibid., p.158)

Judaism taught that the body decays on the fourth day, as per the Lazarus story.
Psalm 16 says that the body would not decay. This is where the third day resurrection comes in. The resurrection was on the third day so that the body wouldnt decay in accordance with Psalm 16.

That's what Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 15: Bodily death, bodily burial, then on Day 3 before the decay sets in, he "arose", which in Judaism and in the gospels means a bodily resurrection like Elijah and Lazarus, respectively.
Very suggestive, thanks for this, but this is not independent evidence of a tomb for Jesus. This is only to instantiate a Mediterranean tropos in a Jewish culture by using Jewish ways to represent it. If you believe that Jesus is risen, then you add later a tomb, a resurrection ''after 3 days'', fulfillment prophecies more or less fit, etc. And you will see (and sell) it as dogmatically true only when you want at the same time denying that the same things happened to other pagan figures (that is what Justin did).

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:49 am
by rakovsky
Giuseppe wrote:
Your answer is that I haven't PROVEN that these "other motives" in 1. "prove" the empty tomb story was original, nor does it "prove a negative" that paganism was NOT the source of the empty tomb story. But that misplaces the burden of proof. If one's thesis is that the empty tomb story came from paganism, the burden is on the proponent of that thesis to prove that this is "the" explanation, and not more obvious reasons, like the desire to prove that his body rose in accordance with Judaism's teaching on the bodily resurrection.
Ok that the burden is on me etc, but Miller thinks that Justin, First Apology 21 is evidence of the sincere admission, by a Christian, of recognition that those stories were literary conventional embellishments common to all Mediterranean cultures. An admission that is corroborated by 77 examples of body translation episodes confirming Mark as the example number 78.
I read the same chapter and did not see it as any kind of admission that the stories named in the apology chp 21 (namely, the death, crucifixion, and resurrection) were literary embellishments.

In that chapter Justin says that there is an analogy, but he did not say that they were made up.
I think that my relatives giving me presents is analogous to Santa doing so. But even though I think that Santa is made up, and even though I just made the analogy, I don't think my parents are made up!

The church fathers thought Virgil's prose made a prophetic analogy to Jesus, but they didn't think Jesus was a pagan fake.

In Chapter 21, Justin does not mention an empty tomb. Justin mentions the death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Justin did not think those things were invented based on paganism, and consequently that is not what he said in the chapter. Just drawing an analogy to inventions doesn't mean they are all the same - mere inventions.

Miller may be a scholar, but there are plentiful New Testament scholars with very opposing views. It's true that NT speculations like Miller's are needed to develop the field. But with so many opposing views, it's not as if they are a real authority. It's a kind of Protestant approach - the scholar decides something because that's how he sees it. It does not rely enough on what the Church teaches, and instead tries to imagine and fabricate what the church taught.

Now, the Church really could have taught something different in 40 AD than in 200 AD. In fact, I tend to think that this probably happened. (eg. as to when the Second Coming would happen). I just have a skeptical attitude about those kinds of Protestant-style claims, just as I have skepticism about the miracles themselves.

That is, the Protestants imagined that they had uncovered or "revealed" the original teaching of 40 AD, and the Catholic Church got the original teachings all wrong. Much of the critical scholarship in the Western world continues this improvisational, orphanizing style of interpretation.

The Reformed scholars of the 16th century didn't believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. So they wrongly imagined that this must not have been the "original" teaching and that somehow this got confused in the 3rd to 4th centuries. Likewise, there are "critical" NT scholars who don't believe in the real bodily resurrection, so they imagine that this was just some later made up teaching. The 16th century Reformers and the critical NT scholars of today use the same baseless improvisational style of interpretation that schismates the text away from the nearest commentators in time that we have (the 2nd century).

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:03 pm
by rakovsky
Giuseppe wrote:
''the resurrection tale ... did not operate as a defensible historical event in early Christian leterature, but as an etiological subject, symbol or metonym of this negotiation. Jesus, as [Greek words] (Rev 1.5, ''the first-bordn of the dead'), served as the principal literary vehicle registring the inchoate movement within the standing Jewish and broadly Mediterranean socio-philosophical fray. In this sense, the so-called orthodox narratives rendering Jesus' resurrection as physical were just as creative and deliberate as the so-called unorthodox treatments that rendered his raised state as psychical or pneumatic.
(ibid., p.158)
This is just the author Miller imagining on his own that the earliest apostles only taught things as a mere symbol, because that's really how Miller himself believes it to be.
In truth, the apostles did NOT present it as a symbol. Where do the gospels or Paul say that Jesus was only SYMBOLICALLY raised?
Paul presents Jesus as a real person with a real resurrection and says in black and white that if Jesus did not resurrect, your faith is in vain. That's not "etiological symbolism", that's presenting to the reader as if this stuff is real in the normal sense of the word.
Judaism taught that the body decays on the fourth day, as per the Lazarus story.
Psalm 16 says that the body would not decay. This is where the third day resurrection comes in. The resurrection was on the third day so that the body wouldnt decay in accordance with Psalm 16.

That's what Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 15: Bodily death, bodily burial, then on Day 3 before the decay sets in, he "arose", which in Judaism and in the gospels means a bodily resurrection like Elijah and Lazarus, respectively.
Very suggestive, thanks for this, but this is not independent evidence of a tomb for Jesus. This is only to instantiate a Mediterranean tropos in a Jewish culture by using Jewish ways to represent it. If you believe that Jesus is risen, then you add later a tomb, a resurrection ''after 3 days'', fulfillment prophecies more or less fit, etc.
Yes. You do not have to talk about paganism or have that as a motive. If you believe Jesus rose physically, a story about the body is only natural to have as a part of it.
And you will see (and sell) it as dogmatically true only when you want at the same time denying that the same things happened to other pagan figures (that is what Justin did).
No. Paul said that God's existence was dogmatically true, but then he went to the pagans and said that their unknown deity in the temple was the Christian god. Paul drew an analogy, without even announcing that the pagan deity was fake.
There is no need in chapter 21 in particular for Justin to deny that the pagan gods didn't exist, since Justin obviously didn't think that they did.
I don't think that Santa exists, so why do I have to announce that when I intentionally draw an analogy between my parents and Santa, or else risk that you think my parents don't exist?

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:55 am
by Giuseppe
You do not have to talk about paganism or have that as a motive. If you believe Jesus rose physically, a story about the body is only natural to have as a part of it.
If I remember well, Maurice Casey did talk about a spiritual resurrection of Jesus as the original belief. I mention him only to show that there is not consensus about that matter, but I find real evidence in Miller's book that the hellenistic tropos of a body translation was applied on Jesus : Mark ends with verse 16:8 therefore there is more than a suspect that we have the clear implicit implication: a tomb ---> empty tomb.

Using your metaphor of Santa, etc, I agree that the original event is unique: your relatives giving presents to you, and Santa being an added ''tropos'' to show that fact.
But in our case the original event may be with equal probability a spiritual resurrection or (aut) a physical resurrection. 1 Cor 15:50 may be used as an example of the former. It would be apologetical to claim certainty on that matter. The risk is a possibiliter fallacy.
In short, although the translation of some figures was believed, to some extent, by interested parties, the “believers” still relegated the translation to the mental domain of legend.
https://www.academia.edu/16406500/Revie ... _Reception

Justin was an interested party, therefore he had to believe to truth of Jesus body translation, but the prima facie reading by earliest Christians was different. If you are a gentile Christian of I CE, you would have no way to distinguish prima facie the Gospel episode about tomb from the pagan stories on body translation. Hence the need of a Justin that would insist to claim the intrinsic 'truth' of these episodes. Especially against Christians as Marcion.

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:06 am
by rakovsky
Giuseppe wrote:
You do not have to talk about paganism or have that as a motive. If you believe Jesus rose physically, a story about the body is only natural to have as a part of it.
If I remember well, Maurice Casey did talk about a spiritual resurrection of Jesus as the original belief. I mention him only to show that there is not consensus about that matter, but I find real evidence in Miller's book that the hellenistic tropos of a body translation was applied on Jesus : Mark ends with verse 16:8 therefore there is more than a suspect that we have the clear implicit implication: a tomb ---> empty tomb.

Using your metaphor of Santa, etc, I agree that the original event is unique: your relatives giving presents to you, and Santa being an added ''tropos'' to show that fact.
But in our case the original event may be with equal probability a spiritual resurrection or (aut) a physical resurrection. 1 Cor 15:50 may be used as an example of the former. It would be apologetical to claim certainty on that matter. The risk is a possibiliter fallacy.
In short, although the translation of some figures was believed, to some extent, by interested parties, the “believers” still relegated the translation to the mental domain of legend.
https://www.academia.edu/16406500/Revie ... _Reception
I think they are just imagining that spiritual-only resurrection was the "original story". The story we have is of an empty tomb and belief in a physical resurrection. Over and over Jesus does physical healings, not just spiritual ones like casting out demons. He makes the winds obey him, turns water into wine, etc. etc. Physical extreme miracles were par for the course. The Jews actually believed in physical miracles at that time period. Nowadays many people in Christian are more skeptical, so they revise what they think the original story was to match their beliefs.
Justin was an interested party, therefore he had to believe to truth of Jesus body translation, but the prima facie reading by earliest Christians was different. If you are a gentile Christian of I CE, you would have no way to distinguish prima facie the Gospel episode about tomb from the pagan stories on body translation. Hence the need of a Justin that would insist to claim the intrinsic 'truth' of these episodes. Especially against Christians as Marcion.
Sure, but Justin did not need to make that insistence viz a viz false paganism in every single chapter. In that particular chapter mentioning Jesus' death and resurrection (not btw the empty tomb), he was focusing on real similarities to paganism. But it doesn't mean that he considered the analogy absolute.
Sure, he would need to insist on the intrinsic truth of the resurrection of Jesus in particular, but he could still coherently do that in some other chapter to avid making chp. 21 an acceptance of paganism.

Re: The Resurrection: A Critical Inquiry (Michael J. Alter)

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:42 am
by Giuseppe
In that particular chapter mentioning Jesus' death and resurrection (not btw the empty tomb), he was focusing on real similarities to paganism. But it doesn't mean that he considered the analogy absolute.
the things in common are the birth, the disappearance of the body, the translation body and the ascension body, not exclusively the 'empty tomb' (that is only a particular simbolic way to show the entire concept). With his absurd argument of demons, etc, simply Justin did reveal to be basically ignorant about why the gospel episodes were ''true'' and the pagan episodes were ''false'' (and he did believe in the existence of pagan deities as demons). He assumes only that these stories, his stories, were ''true''. Period.
If Justin believes that his stories were true, then he does so because of his faith only, not because these stories did sound more persuasive than pagan stories: according to Justin, these stories were similar and one cannot see prima facie the qualitative difference. But by doing so he did recognize implicitly that these stories, as similar to these pagans, could not be evidence of his claims (even if he blindly believes in them). It's only because his strong will of believe that for Justin these stories will become more true than, more old than, the pagan stories.