Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Of course the natural way of looking at this problem is to assume (a) that 1 Corinthians is original (b) since the only parallel in Justin is his use of 1 Corinthians 11:19 Justin came second and (c) Adversus Marcionem for some reason decided to abandon his section by section analysis almost completely and 'filled in' only this one section with 'stuff' from Justin.

There is nothing wrong theoretically with following the normal way of looking at things. Yet we should note a very good reason for ignoring this understanding - 1 Corinthians is incomprehensible, badly written, meandering and is so friggin' long it can't possibly have been an original correspondence between any man and any community EVER. This is a serious objection for me. Couple that with the fact that we know the Marcionite letters were 'shorter' (owing to the fact they allegedly 'cut' stuff from the letters) the idea that the orthodox flooded the letters with sheer nonsense to ruin the terse message originally contained in the letters is another plausible explanation. The massive expansion from the Syriac Ignatius to the longer and even longer Greek is a perfect illustration of this ancient process but so is the addition of massive amounts of material from Justin to Adversus Marcionem.

To this end we would posit instead the following arrangement:

1. 'stuff' written by the apostle close if not exactly corresponding to the 'lost' Marcionite recension his/their Apostolicon or Apostolos (I am never sure what they called this work).
2. Justin Martyr writing and perhaps knowing this 'stuff' but keeping it (mostly) secret after the heretical manner
3. a late second century 'spiritual' writing process involving many 'prophets' inspired by the Holy Spirit expanding the gospel, the Apostle, Justin Martyr, anti-Marcionite works mixing and matching influences from the Apostle and Justin Martyr.

In other words, I am not sure whether it is possible that Justin Martyr might have influenced the final recension of 1 Corinthians. How was this possible? I wonder whether the appearance of 'stuff' from Justin Martyr just before chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians represents the original beginning to an anti-Marcionite work which focused on the 'Antitheses' which was ultimately deemed unsuccessful.

The Marcionites say we had one gospel; the orthodox broke apart that unity and 'discovered' four gospels which the Marcionites said was spurious. My question has always been did the same thing happen with the Apostolicon or Apostolos? Did an original unity in the Marcionite canon get 'broken up' and arranged into 14 or 15 letters? What evidence is there that the Marcionites had these letters? Not much if not nothing at all. The Galatians-first ordering of the canon is not Marcionite, as I noted many times before, it's Catholic. Adversus Marcionem and that Catholic ordering agree likely because the original author broke apart a proto-'Against Marcion' which began with this Justin-retread material and then followed the original ordering of the so-called 'Antitheses.' I can point to many examples in Book Four of an original 'gospel harmony' ordering of the Commentary in the manner of Ephrem the Syrian. But what about Book Five? Is there anyway to show that Paul originally wrote a midrash or commentary on his secret gospel which itself was kept secret and used only for exegetic interpretation within the highest rankings of the priesthood of his community? Let's see.

On the basic idea that Adversus Marcionem (or parts of it) derive from Justin.

Harnack, Zur Quellenkritik der Geschichte des Gnosticismus, 66. This was doubted by Lipsius, Quellen der ältesten Ketzergeschichte, 70–71. Quispel, De bronnen van Tertullianus' Adversus Marcionem, 30–31, rejected the theory for book one of Adversus Marcionem and then argued (pp. 56–59) that Tertullian used Justin's Dialogue in book three of Adversus Marcionem. More recently, Norelli, “Que pouvons-nous reconstituer du Syntagma,” 180, proposes use of Justin's Syntagma by Tertullian in his Adversus Marcionem. [Burke Forbidden Texts p. 205]

On Book Three of Adversus Marcionem and Adversus Iudaeos going back to Justin:

If we accept the arguments of Säflund and Tränkle for the authenticity of Adversus Iudaeos and its precedence to Adversus Marcionem, our case is strengthened.40 Even if the treatise is not authentic, or only its second half, the presence of the same material from Adversus Marcionem 3.7 in a treatise against the Jews supports the indications of the Adversus Marcionem itself that its original context is the debate between Jews and Christians.

As Justin had referred to the two comings in his Apology to pagans, so also did Tertullian. Even when used in an apology to pagans, the reference to the two comings occurs in the context of Christian differences from Jews. “The Jews knew that Christ was to come, since the prophets spoke to them. And even now they look for his coming; nor is there any greater conflict between us and them than that they do not believe him already to have come. Two comings were predicted for him—a first, which has been fulfilled, in the humility of human form, a second, which is imminent at the end of the world, in a majestic display of divinity. By not understanding the first, the Jews considered the second, which they hope for as more openly foretold, to be the only one. It was the merited punishment of their sin not to understand the first coming.”41 Tertullian's dependence on Justin is well recognised.42

40. Säflund, De Pallio and die stilistische Entwicklung Tertallians, Part V, esp. 143, 178–79, 193ff., 201. The work is a careful refutation of the influential dissertation by Akerman, “Über die Echtheit der letzteren Hälfte von Tertullians Adversus Iudaeos.” Hermann Tränkle, ed., Q.S.F. Tertulliani Adversus Iudaeos. Cf. the argument of Hugo Koch, “Tertullianisches,” 462–69 that Adv. Iud. 8 and 9 are from the same hand. Viciano, “Principios de hermenéutica biblica en el tratato 'Adversus Iudaeos' de Tertuliano,” 637–44, esp. 638–39.
42. Skarsaune Proof from Prophesy 435 - 445

More parallels in Adversus Marcionem Book 5 and Justin:

As we are interested in possible interaction between Judaism and Christianity, the question arises as to whether the Christological interpretations of Ps 72 by Justin and later Christian writers under his influence such as Tertullian Adversus Marcionem 5.10 [Poorthuis in Jewish and Christian Liturgy and Worship p. 274]

Actually the author means Tertullian Adversus Marcion 5.9. These people are something.

Tertullian borrowing from Justin in Book Two https://books.google.com/books?id=ILVoA ... 93&f=false

On the interest in Abraham not being circumcised (Justin Martyr, Dialogue, 19 and 33; Tertullian, Adv. Marc., 5. 9, and Adv. Jud, 4)

Here is another way of looking at the problem - https://books.google.com/books?id=1bsUA ... on&f=false

This is something that Vinzent has noted about possible parallels between Justin's and Marcion's gospel but here presented in a slightly different way.

1. Justin used water in his Eucharist and references scriptural references to wine without equating it with sacramental wine
2. Tertullian takes over those same scriptural references and argues that they do mean sacramental wine - " so that you (Marcion) may recognize in wine an ancient figure for blood" (Adv Marc 4.41)
3. doesn't that mean that in fact when 'Tertullian' pretends to be addressing Marcion he is really correcting Justin?
I think it means that lurking behind 'Marcion' is the real historical Justin despite the fact that the existing texts of Justin condemn Marcion and Irenaeus calls Justin as a witness against Marcion.

Justin Dialogue 12 - "And by Jeremiah, concerning this same new covenant, He thus speaks: 'Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt' (Jeremiah 31:31-32). If, therefore, God proclaimed a new covenant which was to be instituted, and this for a light of the nations, we see and are persuaded that men approach God, leaving their idols and other unrighteousness, through the name of Him who was crucified, Jesus Christ, and abide by their confession even unto death, and maintain piety. Moreover, by the works and by the attendant miracles, it is possible for all to understand that He is the new law, and the new covenant, and the expectation of those who out of every people wait for the good things of God. For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircumcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ, as shall be demonstrated while we proceed. I also adduced another passage in which Isaiah exclaims: Hear My words, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given Him for a witness to the people: nations which know not You shall call on You; peoples who know not You shall escape to You, because of your God, the Holy One of Israel; for He has glorified You.

Adversus Marcionem 4.1 - And in another passage: "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Jacob, and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I arrested their dispensation, in order to bring them out of the land of Egypt." He thus shows that the ancient covenant is temporary only, when He indicates its change; also when He promises that it shall be followed by an eternal one. For by Isaiah He says: "Hear me, and ye shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you," adding "the sure mercies of David," in order that He might show that that covenant was to run its course in Christ. That He was of the family of David, according to the genealogy of Mary, He declared in a figurative way even by the rod which was to proceed out of the stem of Jesse.

Dialogue 39, 40 - And when the Spirit of prophecy speaks as predicting things that are to come to pass, He speaks in this way: For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Isaiah 2:3 And that it did so come to pass, we can convince you. For from Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of God; and we who formerly used to murder one another do not only now refrain from making war upon our enemies, but also, that we may not lie nor deceive our examiners, willingly die confessing Christ. For that saying, The tongue has sworn but the mind is unsworn, might be imitated by us in this matter. But if the soldiers enrolled by you, and who have taken the military oath, prefer their allegiance to their own life, and parents, and country, and all kindred, though you can offer them nothing incorruptible, it were verily ridiculous if we, who earnestly long for incorruption, should not endure all things, in order to obtain what we desire from Him who is able to grant it. And hear how it was foretold concerning those who published His doctrine and proclaimed His appearance, the above-mentioned prophet and king speaking thus by the Spirit of prophecy Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night shows knowledge. There is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard. Their voice has gone out into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world. In the sun has He set His tabernacle, and he as a bridegroom going out of his chamber shall rejoice as a giant to run his course [Psalm 19:2 - 3] And we have thought it right and relevant to mention some other prophetic utterances of David besides these; from which you may learn how the Spirit of prophecy exhorts men to live, and how He foretold the conspiracy which was formed against Christ by Herod the king of the Jews, and the Jews themselves, and Pilate, who was your governor among them, with his soldiers; and how He should be believed on by men of every race; and how God calls Him His Son, and has declared that He will subdue all His enemies under Him; and how the devils, as much as they can, strive to escape the power of God the Father and Lord of all, and the power of Christ Himself; and how God calls all to repentance before the day of judgment comes.

Adversus Marcionem 4.1 - Long ago did Isaiah declare that "out of Sion should go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem" [Isa 2.2] ----some other law, that is, and another word. In short, says he, "He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people" [Isa 2.3] meaning not those of the Jewish people only, but of the nations which are judged by the new law of the gospel and the new word of the apostles, and are amongst themselves rebuked of their old error as soon as they have believed. And as the result of this, "they beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears (which are a kind of hunting instruments) into pruning-hooks; " [Isa 2.4] that is to say, minds, which once were fierce and cruel, are changed by them into good dispositions productive of good fruit. And again: "Hearken unto me, hearken unto me, my people, and ye kings, give ear unto me; for a law shall proceed from me, and my judgment for a light to the nations; " [Isa 2.4] wherefore He had determined and decreed that the nations also were to be enlightened by the law and the word of the gospel. This will be that law which (according to David also) is unblameable, because "perfect, converting the soul" [Ps 19.2] from idols unto God.