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Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:32 pm
by Giuseppe
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:54 am
by andrewcriddle
perseusomega9 wrote:andrewcriddle wrote:Ben C. Smith wrote:
I think the first explicit quotation is from Irenaeus. There are, of course, hotly contested allusions all over the place before Irenaeus (epistle of Barnabas, Justin Martyr, et cetera).
The
epistula apostolorum probably c 150 CE probably knows Acts
text
31 And behold a man shall meet you, whose name is Saul, which being interpreted is Paul: he is a Jew, circumcised according to the law, and he shall receive my voice from heaven with fear and terror and trembling. And his eyes shall be blinded, and by your hands by the sign of the cross shall they be protected (healed: other Eth. MSS. with spittle by your hands shall his eyes, &c.). Do ye unto him all that I have done unto you. Deliver it (? the word of God) unto the other. And at the same time that man shall open his eyes and praise the Lord, even my Father which is in heaven. He shall obtain power among the people and shall preach and instruct; and many that hear him shall obtain glory and be redeemed. But thereafter shall men be wroth with him and deliver him into the hands of his enemies, and he shall bear witness before kings that are mortal, and his end shall be that he shall turn unto me, whereas he persecuted me at the first. He shall preach and teach and abide with the elect, as a chosen vessel and a wall that shall not be overthrown, yea, the last of the last shall become a preacher unto the Gentiles, made perfect by the will of my Father. Like as ye have learned from the Scripture that your fathers the prophets spake of me, and in me it is indeed fulfilled.
Andrew Criddle
If that's the case, why does the opening not list Matthias in Acts and different lists for the other 11?
The revelation of Jesus to the disciples in the EA seems to be set after the resurrection but before the ascension. Matthias is appointed in Acts after the Ascension.
Andrew Criddle
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:25 am
by perseusomega9
and the other apostles?
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:17 am
by andrewcriddle
perseusomega9 wrote:and the other apostles?
IMO it is clear that the author of the EA had read some of the synoptic gospels.
This does cause a problem about the oddities of the list of apostles in EA but EA is still clearly dependent on the synoptics despite the way synoptic material is reworked.
Given that the author of EA knew (some of) the synoptics, I see no additional problem arising from knowledge of Acts.
Andrew Criddle
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:22 am
by Secret Alias
Sorry Andrew. EA has a (n oddly ordered) gospel harmony. Look at the list of things from the gospel in the order they appear in the gospel (notice the Johannine prologue followed by the Alpha, Beta infancy narrative and then the synoptic stuff). It's an oddly ordered gospel harmony.
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:23 am
by Secret Alias
Not that this has any impact on the rest of your argument.
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:47 am
by andrewcriddle
Secret Alias wrote:Not that this has any impact on the rest of your argument.
I think you are
probably right that EA knew a gospel harmony.
However it seems
clear that EA knew the synoptic material in at least some form, and that is all my argument required.
Andrew Criddle
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:50 am
by Secret Alias
Of course. Just trying to remind people at the forum that the use of actual synoptic texts is relatively late in early Christianity. Almost never happens until the end of the second century.
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:52 pm
by Ben C. Smith
Secret Alias wrote:Of course. Just trying to remind people at the forum that the use of actual synoptic texts is relatively late in early Christianity. Almost never happens until the end of the second century.
Do you mean actual synoptic texts
as we have them now? Or is this just a roundabout way of saying that you think that some kind of megagospel (misnamed a harmony) preceded the synoptic gospels?
Re: Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:07 pm
by Secret Alias
In Syriac the name given to our collection is that of the 'separated gospels' (Evangelion Dampharshe). Since Jesus (or Christianity) came from that part of the world (at least theoretically) it might be worth considering what Justin's original followers must have thought about these new 'separated' texts. Don't know how, don't know why, don't know when, but someone made four texts out of one bad, evil dangerous original - at least that's what the followers of Justin and Justin must have thought (minus the 'bad, evil dangerous' business).