Did the Author of Acts Know About Paul's Letters?

[Secret Alias]

The juxtaposition between Peter and Paul in the Pseudo-Clementines is a complex problem. There are times for instance that Peter sounds a lot like the Marcionite Paul. There isn't a developed sense of a community of Twelve in the earliest layer of the text. Everyone has their theories about the text. I haven't settled on mine yet. It's just odd that both men wrestling with each other here are named 'Simon' isn't it?

[Secret Alias]

And the hostility or tension between the two is oddly paralleled by the tradition of Clement of Alexandria that Mark somehow published a gospel that wasn't sanctioned by Peter. As I am not one to argue for a second century origin for Christianity I imagine that a century could have passed with two or more traditions loosely adhering to the same 'apostle' but disagreeing on his teaching could end up demonizing the 'apostle' of another tradition even though they were one and the same person originally. Another example, when exactly did Rome become the city of the 'twin apostles' Peter and Paul? We start hearing about 'Peter and Paul' being spoken in the same breath by the time of Hegesippus (mid to late second century). There must have been one tradition associated with Peter and another associated with Paul. But how did they come together? They must have used a similar gospel right? But that's the problem that Irenaeus tries to work out in the late second century through forgery. But if it happened naturally the most likely reason why two groups of Christians ended up possessing two similar gospels in two different names ('Paul' and 'Peter' do about as well as 'Simon' or any two names here) is because they were both devoted to the same person right? If Peter was an Aramaic name it would mean 'one who had visions' or 'interpreter.' http://aramaicnt.org/2010/02/21/stephan ... -on-peter/

[toejam]

^You're changing topic. We're not talking about whether there should be a developed sense of a community of Twelve, or why Paul is called Simon Magus, etc. We're talking about why Acts doesn't mention Paul writing letters. I just don't think it is as big of a deal as you think. Paul was chiefly known (whether this is accurate about him or not, I suspect it is) as one preaching a Jesus Salvation message to gentiles that didn't require obedience to the Torah. The emphasis on Paul as a writer of scripture is a secondary thing, one that probably started to develop as his letters (and/or fraudulent ones) increasingly began to be copied. Paul 'the letter writer' becomes even more important in the 2nd century when different sects are competing over who is the true heir of Paul (Marcionites? Valentinians? Proto-orthodox? - each of whom were claiming lineage from Paul)

[Secret Alias]

Paul was chiefly known (whether this is accurate about him or not, I suspect it is) as one preaching a Jesus Salvation message to gentiles that didn't require obedience to the Torah

In what sense did 'salvation' (yesha) for the Jews require obedience to the Torah? I am just curious because I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Secret Alias]

I know of no association between 'salvation' and obedience to the ten utterances. God delivered Israel from Pharaoh before Sinai. The Israelites remained in a state of slavery even after their deliverance and in the end stayed in a position of servitude in perpetuity. That's the message of the Marcionites - emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. It's redemption not salvation that Paul offered.

[Secret Alias]

Here's the revelation of the ten utterances on Sinai. Nary I mention of 'salvation':

And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”

20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.

The people were scared shitless and they were still slaves.

[toejam]

Again, that's a separate issue. Non-Christian Jews probably had a variety of ideas about salvation, the afterlife, the nature of "sin", to what extent humans/Jews can be reconciled with God etc., perhaps with no clear consensus view. The issue I'm responding to is why Acts doesn't talk about Paul as a letter writer. My reply is that it's potentially not what Paul was chiefly known for. He was chiefly known for preaching a Jesus salvation message without obedience to Torah - i.e. getting circumcised, following dietary requirements, etc. This was seen as a relief to many God-fearing gentiles, and pissed off many Jews. Paul as a writer of scripture is secondary thing.

[Secret Alias]

In Deuteronomy he promises the Israelites 'stuff' but no mention of salvation here either:

Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the Lord and you to declare to you the word of the Lord, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:

6 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

7 “You shall have no other gods before me.

8 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

11 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

16 “Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

17 “You shall not murder.

18 “You shall not commit adultery.

19 “You shall not steal.

20 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

21 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

22 These are the commandments the Lord proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.

23 When you heard the voice out of the darkness, while the mountain was ablaze with fire, all the leaders of your tribes and your elders came to me. 24 And you said, “The Lord our God has shown us his glory and his majesty, and we have heard his voice from the fire. Today we have seen that a person can live even if God speaks with them. 25 But now, why should we die? This great fire will consume us, and we will die if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any longer. 26 For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? 27 Go near and listen to all that the Lord our God says. Then tell us whatever the Lord our God tells you. We will listen and obey.”

28 The Lord heard you when you spoke to me, and the Lord said to me, “I have heard what this people said to you. Everything they said was good. 29 Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever!

30 “Go, tell them to return to their tents. 31 But you stay here with me so that I may give you all the commands, decrees and laws you are to teach them to follow in the land I am giving them to possess.”

32 So be careful to do what the Lord your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 Walk in obedience to all that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.

These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, 2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life. 3 Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

13 Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. 16 Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at Massah. 17 Be sure to keep the commands of the Lord your God and the stipulations and decrees he has given you. 18 Do what is right and good in the Lord’s sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land the Lord promised on oath to your ancestors, 19 thrusting out all your enemies before you, as the Lord said.

Scared shitless and you'll get stuff but no salvation.

[Secret Alias]

Non-Christian Jews probably had a variety of ideas about salvation, the afterlife, the nature of "sin", to what extent humans/Jews can be reconciled with God etc., perhaps with no clear consensus view

But I've just cited you the texts. There is no mention of salvation associated with the giving of the Law. Your theory might have support from two thousand years of meaningless white scholarship but it can't have been the antitheses originally developed in Christianity. The Jewish religion is laid out plainly in the Pentateuch. It's clearly not a matter of choosing between two different ways to 'salvation.' Salvation or deliverance is only given by god and it isn't predicated on observance of the ten utterances. Otherwise the salvation wouldn't have come before Sinai.

[toejam]

In other words, Jews don't need to have a salvation theology in order for my point to stand about how Paul was primarily viewed (positively or negatively).