Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

JoeWallack wrote:Yes, a literary function. A tribute (so to speak) to Paul I think. Paul as possible source should always be on the Wordmeister's list:

Philippians 1

12 Now I would have you know, brethren, that the things [which happened] unto me have fallen out rather unto the progress of the gospel;

13 so that my bonds became manifest in Christ throughout the whole praetorian guard, and to all the rest;

14 and that most of the brethren in the Lord, being confident through my bonds, are more abundantly bold to speak the word of God without fear.

Do you (or Kunigunde) happen to have a handy list of such potential Paulinisms in Mark?

Ben.

Ben C. Smith wrote:Do you (or Kunigunde) happen to have a handy list of such potential Paulinisms in Mark?

Okay, a jogging of my memory followed by a bit of searching produces this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=412. I will have to do some reading to see how complete it is.

Not very complete, it turns out. I know I have seen many other correspondences noted on this very forum, let alone in other contexts. There is also this from Bernard: http://historical-jesus.info/66.html. But it highlights only four or five in all.

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote:It seems that my question can't be decided. But there may be some interesting points. For example, I think that the Dura-Europos Gospel can be read without problem in that way.

day of preparation = day associated with the activity
preparation = activity
Sabbath = day
Pro-Sabbaton (before-Sabbath) = preparation = activity in the last hours (evening) before the Sabbath

Didache 8.1:


Clement of Alexandria, Miscellanies 7.12:

Clement's wording is an exact match with the Didascalia ; or, Faith of the 318 Fathers, a work embodying the Nicene Creed with an interpretation or commentary and a list of rules and regulations for priests and monks http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/pgm/PG_Mig ... enorum.pdf

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote:1) current problem Mark 12:42

And having come one poor widow cast two “lepta” which is (ὅ ἐστιν) „kodrantes (quadrans)” ...

Ben and I discussed that there was no ancient coin with the name “lepton”. It is just an adjective meaning "small". In the ancient sources before Mark it is used as an adjective with a noun, in the sense of a “small or light or thin” coin. It means simply “two smalls”. It could be some kind of slang or it could be that Mark did not wish to specify the two coins of the widow.

Revelations from Israel

P.Yadin 1 16 - one of the [wiki][/wiki] Babatha papyrii

It is assumed that those "blacks" are silver coins with a high ratio of copper which get a black colour very rapidly


P.Hever 69

W. Weiser & H. M. Cotton ("Gebt dem Kaiser, was des Kaisers ist ...", Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik 114 [1996] 237–287) list 15 Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek papyrii with such a juxtaposition as in Mark, all from Judaea, Nabatene and Syria

(It could be also a good argument that Mark came from the Near East )

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote:

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote:1) current problem Mark 12:42

And having come one poor widow cast two “lepta” which is (ὅ ἐστιν) „kodrantes (quadrans)” ...

Ben and I discussed that there was no ancient coin with the name “lepton”. It is just an adjective meaning "small". In the ancient sources before Mark it is used as an adjective with a noun, in the sense of a “small or light or thin” coin. It means simply “two smalls”. It could be some kind of slang or it could be that Mark did not wish to specify the two coins of the widow.

Revelations from Israel

P.Yadin 1 16 - one of the [wiki][/wiki] Babatha papyrii

20 πέντε πατητοῦ σάτα δέκα στεφανικοῦ μέλαν ἓν λεπτὰ τριάκοντα (1 black 30 lepta)
27 στεφανικοῦ μελαίνας τρεῖς λεπτὰ τριάκοντα (3 blacks 30 lepta)
32 στεφανικοῦ μελαίνας ὀκτὼ λεπτὰ τεσσαράκοντα πέ̣ν̣τ̣ε̣ (8 blacks 45 lepta)

It is assumed that those "blacks" are silver coins with a high ratio of copper which get a black colour very rapidly


P.Hever 69

6 αὐτῷ εἰς λόγον προσφορᾶς πρ̣ο̣ι̣κ̣[ὸς] ἐ̣ν ἀργ̣ύ[ρῳ καὶ χρυσῷ - ca.15 - δηνάρια πεν-]
τακόσιαι οἵ εἰσιν στατῆρε̣[ς ἑκατὸν εἰκο]σιπέ̣[ντε - ca.29 - παρʼ] (500 denars which are 125 staters)

Very interesting! Thanks.

W. Weiser & H. M. Cotton ("Gebt dem Kaiser, was des Kaisers ist ...", Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik 114 [1996] 237–287) list 15 Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek papyrii with such a juxtaposition as in Mark, all from Judaea, Nabatene and Syria

What is the exact juxtaposition of which you speak? Is it lepta with quadrantes? Or...?

Ben.

Ben C. Smith wrote:Very interesting! Thanks.

The term „blacks“ seems to be a derogative Koine slang for silver coins from Nabatene, named “selaim”. There is archaeological evidence that the selaim were such “black” coins with a relative low ratio of silver (50 percent) and a relative high ratio of copper.

Ben C. Smith wrote:What is the exact juxtaposition of which you speak? Is it lepta with quadrantes? Or...?

Yes. These papyrii are often juridical or financial documents. The mention of two different currencies had the function to fix the value. On the one side was the domestic currency and on the other side a foreign currency, often Greek or Roman.

Excellent. Do you happen to have the names of those 15 papyri?

Ben C. Smith wrote:Excellent. Do you happen to have the names of those 15 papyri?

The article is online. There is a list of 11 Aramaic/Hebrew papyrii and a list of 4 Greek papyrii. It begins in the middle of page 244 with

1. XHev/Se 955, eine aramäische Verkaufsurkunde über einen Acker, ist paläographisch in die 2. Hälfte des 1. Jh. n. Chr. datiert.