How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
outhouse
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by outhouse »

Secret Alias wrote:Can we all just agree to ignore anything that comes from John? He never has anything interesting to say.

You mean.

I'm very desperate to prove my failed theory before I die. That John constantly uses academia and what is accepted without question and tries to undermine my vivid imagination and constant rhetorical questions.
outhouse
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by outhouse »

Ulan wrote: what Paul taught, as he, as you very well state, tells us. Which, by the way, you do not accept. Because of "truth".


There is a difference in those who study the text for possibilities, and those who promote unsubstantiated conclusions from said study.

I have an open mind that can and does follow the educated evidence, not the imaginary.
Secret Alias
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

There is a difference in those who study the text for possibilities, and those who promote unsubstantiated conclusions from said study.
No things are not a simple dichotomy. There are many ways of approaching the text. I happen to like studying traditions. I think that basing your understanding on the earliest known reading (= Marcionite) of Paul is the best way to approach matters. I'd be happy to debate that with an intelligent person. But unfortunate you've not demonstrated yourself to be very smart.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

An example of how Galatians 1:1 - 5 and 2 Corinthians 12:1 - 5 were combined to contextualize the gospel from the Acts of Peter and Paul where Paul declares:
And this teaching has been given me, not from men, nor through men, but through Jesus Christ, who spoke to me out of heaven, who also has sent me to preach, saying to me, Go forth, for I will be with you; and all things, as many as you shall say or do, I shall make just.
Note here Paul understands the ascent to heaven precedes his mission. It sets in motion the gospel. This would again underscore that his ascent to heaven occurred at the Passion or very near to the beginning of Christianity.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

I wonder if Galatians 1:1 can be understood to mean that Paul was dead and resurrected by Jesus and thus made an apostle. Here is our text:

ἀπόστολος, οὐκ ἀπ’ ἀνθρώπων οὐδὲ δι’ ἀνθρώπου ἀλλὰ διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ Θεοῦ Πατρὸς τοῦ ἐγείραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν

Jerome (from Origen) tells us the Marcionite text was 'removed' καὶ Θεοῦ Πατρὸς :

ἀπόστολος, οὐκ ἀπ’ ἀνθρώπων οὐδὲ δι’ ἀνθρώπου ἀλλὰ διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ ἐγείραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν

What if οὐκ ἀπ’ ἀνθρώπων οὐδὲ δι’ ἀνθρώπου ἀλλὰ was also added later:

ἀπόστολος διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ ἐγείραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

I wonder whether what happened to Paul - i.e. being raised from the dead to the heights of heaven is expected to happen to all Christians. He taught that the dead in Christ will one day rise from their graves to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:15– 17)
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

And if anyone doubts that interpolations crept into all discussions of resurrection look at Colossians 2:
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by[c] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

The insertion of "circumcision" throughout is clearly secondary. It effectively renders the whole passage senseless
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

The bottom line is that i suspect that Paul was originally resurrected by Jesus (or perhaps better "Christ"). Yet every passage that alludes to it has been altered. Why?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
outhouse
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by outhouse »

Secret Alias wrote: But unfortunate you've not demonstrated yourself to be very smart.

A higher IQ with a broken compass is worthless.

And you have not even proven that in any way.
I happen to like studying traditions.
Out of context it is worthless

I think that basing your understanding on the earliest known reading (= Marcionite) of Paul is the best way to approach matters.
Marcion is a 100 years after Paul, and he had nothing to do with the Pauline text we study today.

He was valuable in that we can learn of the diversity in the mid second century as a heretic who made the first known collection of valued text.
outhouse
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by outhouse »

Secret Alias wrote:And if anyone doubts that interpolations crept into all discussions of resurrection look at Colossians 2:
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by[c] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

The insertion of "circumcision" throughout is clearly secondary. It effectively renders the whole passage senseless



These can be explained by the multiple authors as a community who produced these text, and yes copies could have errors in them, and there could have been redactions and and I'm sure interpolations exist.

But lacking to understand the original context, can also lead one to make false assumptions.

Maybe this helps you

http://biblehub.com/colossians/2-11.htm
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