theterminator wrote:
time line
35:15
dale t says ehrman has misinterpreted the 3 passages in john.
jesus is not claiming divine name
what he is saying is that abraham foresaw that jesus was the messiah
The "I AM" passages? I cannot bare the thought of listening to a podcast to find out.
If so, I kind of doubt that the author of John was thinking of divine foreknowledge. I think the author of John was really linking Jesus Christ with whatever figure he believed had uttered the "I AM" (egō eimi) statement in Exodus 3:14.
*(BGT Joh 8:58) πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμι
(RSV Joh 8:58) before Abraham was, I am
(WTT Exo 3:14) אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה
(RSV Exo 3:14) "I AM WHO I AM."
(BGT Exo 3:14) ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν
(LXE Exo 3:14) I am THE BEING
It may not be restricted to the author of John. The phrase ἐγὼ εἰμι all by itself, is used in Matthew (5x), Mark (3x), Luke (3x), John (24x), Acts (7x) & Revelation (5x), and many many times in the LXX Greek translation of Judean sacred literature. While grammatically it can simply mean "I am he", "It is I", etc., there are several times in the accounts of the trial before the High Priest or Sanhedrin in Mk 14:62 & Lk 22:70, and when he is arrested in Jn 18, where it seems to serve as a circumlocution for "YHWH", and so, I think, it also does in Jn 8:58. Christ is interpreted there to be an intermediary figure between the Father God and Abraham, Moses, etc. (Be prepared for SA to jump in with innumerable posts about his "two powers" Marcionite interpretation!)
However, I found in my documents a copy of a discussion on the subject from a CompuServe forum in 1999, where the possibility that Jn 8:58 implied a time differential was brought up. It was noted that even Daniel Wallace of conservative textual criticism fame did not think that the grammar of the phrase conveyed that meaning, although admitting that is possible (Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, pp 530ff). I guess this centers on whether the way the phrase is utilized there serves as a "historical present" or not. IMHO, "historical present" is one of many hypothetical grammatical constructions invented by theologians to explain away difficult passages.
DCH
