Marcion and John the Baptist

[Ulan]

I'm pretty sure you could say that 2nd temple Judaism was, in fact, a Hellenistic religion. We should not mistake "Hellenistic" for "Greek". Of course, it was not only Hellenistic, as it contained older elements, but the bulk had a good bit of Persian influence, with the final form being reached in Hellenistic times.

This was a two-way road anyway. Take rather obviously near-Eastern religions like those on some of the Aegean islands or in Asia Minor, but Apollo was probably the Babylonian Nergal, etc.

[Secret Alias]

The temple certainly looks 'Hellenistic' to me. I think John outhouse has to calibrate his assumptions. A better way of working I think is that the conservatives actually opposed the entire sacrificial cult (and thus the Mosaic covenant as preserved in Ezra's text) owing to its conflict with the ten commandments. That's a better way of working through the historical tensions.

[Secret Alias]

But of course I base my theories on actual texts and traditions and not on 'straight lines' to cherished assumptions about early Christianity.

[outhouse]

I'm pretty sure you could say that 2nd temple Judaism was, in fact, a Hellenistic religion..

Only if we answered the question in part, not in full.

Was all Judaism a Hellenistic Koine religion accepted with open arms. Fk no.

[Stuart]

But of course I base my theories on actual texts and traditions and not on 'straight lines' to cherished assumptions about early Christianity.

Your lack of doubt gives me great doubt.

Your theories are based on an inconsistent and extremely non-rigorous weighting of sources based on the bias of whether a passage, if interpreted in your peculiar way, fits your theory. Gaps of hundred of years, third hand sources, etc, are seemingly rated equal or higher than primary sources. It's all very much like Robert Eisenman's messy work - a lot of volume but not much there there.

You need to develop a more system approach, and to not carry assumptions into your work (or at least identify and announce them up front), let the data take you where it takes you. And restrict you focus narrowly to be sure you have one thing right before expanding. Often the mundane internal Christian tensions answer will solve the riddle you see now as only solved by some wild theory.

[outhouse]

Idiotic methodology with total lack of comprehensive abilities.


Beyond Antioch, Alexandretta and Northwestern Syria, the main centers of Hellenistic Judaism in the Levant before the destruction of the Second Temple, the opening verse of Acts 6 points to cultural divisions between Hellenized Jews and Aramaic-speaking Israelites in Jerusalem itself: "it speaks of "Hellenists" and "Hebrews."

[outhouse]

But you keep your head in the sand where your unsubstantiated conclusions are safe from criticism

[Secret Alias]

Your lack of doubt gives me great doubt

Thanks. The next time you take a Samaritan or a Karaite or a Mandaean or a Donme out for dinner PM me. That's the problem with this forum too much book knowledge. If you want to get to know a tradition you have to eat.

[Secret Alias]

Idiotic methodology with total lack of comprehensive abilities.

And as for you ant man intellect, why don't you actually spend time trying to posit your moronic theory. I will try for you:

Once upon a time there was a 'pure Judaism' which was fully Jewish and observed 'the Law' fully. No one knows what this tradition was called because it was the true Jewish faith. It was just called 'Judaism.' Then came the Hellenists. They didn't like the Laws and obeyed them less and less until Jesus and Paul came along. They said, you don't have to obey the Law. Then revolutions happened and the temple was destroyed and everyone was sad.

The End

As stupid as this attempt is it is twice as lucid and comprehensive than anything you've laid out in this forum. The reason you can't formulate your ideas is because you don't know what you are talking about.

[Secret Alias]

a Hellenistic Koine religion

Another demonstration of Philistinism. 'Hellenistic Koine ... religion?' So your objection has to do with their speaking the common Greek of the period they were living in? You damn them for not speaking Homeric Greek or some earlier form of the language? You are so fucking stupid.