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the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:17 am
by MrMacSon
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Clement of Rome d.99
Starting in the 3rd and 4th century,[2] tradition has identified him as the Clement that Paul mentioned in Philippians 4:3, a fellow laborer in Christ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Clement_I#Life
Clement is known for an epistle to the church in Corinth - 1 Clement - (c. 96), in which he asserts the apostolic authority of the bishops/presbyters as rulers of the church.[2] The epistle mentions episkopoi (overseers, bishops) or presbyteroi (elders, presbyters) as the upper class of minister, served by the deacons, but, since it does not mention himself, it gives no indication of the title or titles used for Clement in Rome. It has been cited as the first work to establish Roman primacy, but most scholars see the epistle as more fraternal than authoritative.

Papias of Hierapolis [near Pamukkale, in the River Menderes* valley, Denizli Province, southwest Turkey] f. 95-120

As an aside - Papias wrote the Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord = Fragments of Papias
  • no mention of Jesus in them, tho' there are 4 mentions of Christ'

    mentions John/s, Mark, & Matthew; but not Luke or Paul. Also Peter, James, Phillip, Thomas, Judas, Aristion, Revelation, himself(3rd person?)
He is described as "an ancient man who was a hearer of John and a companion of Polycarp" by Polycarp's disciple Irenaeus (c. 180).[2] Eusebius adds that Papias was Bishop of Hierapolis around the time of Ignatius of Antioch

Ignatius d.~117 AD/CE

the 7 letters of Ignatius

Polycarp of Smyrna [now İzmir, coastal western Turkey] (69-155 AD/CE)
It is recorded by Irenaeus, who heard him speak in his youth, and by Tertullian,[4] that he had been a disciple of John the Apostle.[5][6] Saint Jerome wrote that Polycarp was a disciple of John and that John had ordained him bishop of Smyrna - Irenaeus's Adversus Haereses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarp
Letter to the Phillippians [~110-140 AD/CE] (first recorded by Irenaeus of Lyons (according to wikipedia)) in which Polycarp refutes the Gnostics’ argument that God’s incarnation in, and the death and Resurrection of, Christ were all imaginary phenomena of purely moral or mythological significance ... he repeatedly quote from Paul’s writings, and he stresses the personal importance of Paul as a primary authority of the Christian church

.... at that time Paul had been adopted as a primary authority by the Gnostic heretics. Polycarp, in response, reclaimed Paul as a treasured figure of the orthodox church. It is thus apparently partly due to Polycarp that Paul, the disputed apostle, became a theologically respectable part of the Christian church’s tradition ....

According to certain scholars, Polycarp may even have composed or directly influenced some of the letters traditionally ascribed to 'St. Paul', the so-called Pastoral Letters (I and II Timothy, Titus). These letters possess a 2nd-century vocabulary and style that are characteristic of Polycarp.tradition.http://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-Polycarp
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/polycarp.html

The epistles of Ignatius include one to Polycarp (and one to the Smyrnians)

the Martydom of Polycarp - which takes the form of a circular letter from the church of Smyrna to the churches of Pontus - is from part of the collection of writings Roman Catholics and some Protestants term "The Apostolic Fathers" to emphasize their particular 'closeness to the apostles' in Church traditions [wikipedia]

Marcion of Sinope (c. 85 – c. 160) taught by Cerdo? (in Rome?)
  • The 'Marcion canon' -
    1. ten(?) parts of Luke, or 'Ur-Lukas'; aka the 'Evangelion'|'Euangelion'; or the 'Gospel of the Lord';
    2. ten Pauline epistles1; the 'Apostolikon',
    and, according to the Muratonian canon -
    • a Marcionite pseudo-Paul 'epistle to the Alexandrians', &
    • an 'epistle to the Laodiceans'
    1 not the Pastoral Epistles or the Epistle to the Hebrews

    Marcion also wrote a work called the Antithesis which also has not survived, other than being reconstructed.

Justin Martyr (100–165)
born at Flavia Neapolis (today Nablus) in Samaria into a pagan family, and defined himself as a Gentile ... In the opening of the Dialogue,[9] Justin describes his early education, stating that his initial studies left him unsatisfied due to their failure to provide a belief system that would provide theological and metaphysical inspiration to their young pupil. He says he tried first the school of a Stoic philosopher, who was unable to explain God's being to him. He then attended a Peripatetic philosopher but was put off because the philosopher was too eager for his fee. Then he went to hear a Pythagorean philosopher who demanded that he first learn music, astronomy, and geometry, which he did not wish to do. Subsequently, he adopted Platonism after encountering a Platonist thinker who had recently settled in his city ... Some time afterwards, he chanced upon an old man, possibly a Syrian Christian ... Moved by the aged man's argument, Justin renounced both his former religious faith and his philosophical background, choosing instead to re-dedicate his life to the service of the Divine. His newfound convictions were only bolstered by the ascetic lives of the early Christians and the heroic example of the martyrs, whose piety convinced him of the moral and spiritual superiority of Christian doctrine. As a result, he thenceforth decided that the only option for him was to travel throughout the land, spreading the knowledge of Christianity as the "true philosophy." His conversion is commonly assumed to have taken place at Ephesus[11][12] though it may have occurred anywhere on the road from Judaea to Rome.[13]

He then adopted the dress of a philosopher himself and traveled about teaching. During the reign of Antoninus Pius (138-161), he arrived in Rome and started his own school. Tatian was one of his pupils.[14] In the reign of Marcus Aurelius, after disputing with the cynic philosopher Crescens, he was denounced by the latter to the authorities, according to Tatian (Address to the Greeks 19) and Eusebius (HE IV 16.7-8). Justin was tried, together with six companions, by Junius Rusticus, who was urban prefect from 163-167, and was beheaded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Martyr
regarded as the foremost interpreter of the theory of the Logos in the 2nd century.[2] ...

Most of his works are lost, but two apologies and a dialogue did survive. The First Apology, his most well known text, passionately defends the morality of the Christian life, and provides various ethical and philosophical arguments to convince the Roman emperor, Antoninus, to abandon the persecution of the fledgling sect. Further, he also indicates, as St Augustine did regarding the "true religion" that predated Christianity,[6] that the "seeds of Christianity" (manifestations of the Logos acting in history) actually predated Christ's incarnation. This notion allows him to claim many historical Greek philosophers (including Socrates and Plato), in whose works he was well studied, as unknowing Christians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Martyr

Melito of Sardis [near Smyrna] (d. 180) - a contemporary of Polycarp, Polycrates, & probably Apollinaris Claudius

[wiki]Melito's canon[/wiki] - the protocanonicals minus Esther ie. books of the OT that came to be considered canonical during the formational period of Christianity; &

Fragments of Melito of Sardis, the philosopher -
Melito may have been the immediate successor of the "angel" (or "apostle") of the church of Sardis, to whom our Great High Priest addressed one of the apocalyptic messages.

Tatian (c.120 – c.180 AD/CE)
  • the Diatesseron

Theophilus of Antioch (d. 181)
  • Apology to Autolycus in 3 Books; 1st mention of notion of the Trinity, but no mention of Jesus Christ

Others -
  • Simon Magus; unknown dates(?); Gitta, Samaria. a convert to Christianity; supposedly baptised by Philip the Evangelist,
    • via Alexandria to Rome
      confrontation with Peter is recorded in Acts 8:9–24
  • Cerdo fl. 138AD; a Syrian Gnostic; -> Rome. A follower of Simon Magus; a 'Simonian'
    • a contemporary of Pope Hyginus (significance?). Taught Marcion(?) Expelled.
  • [wiki]Menander_(gnostic)[/wiki] (taught the Alexandrian Basilides; listed below) (Josephus's Apion 1 has 'Menander the Ephesian', early 2ndC BC)
  • Polycrates_of_Ephesus (fl. c.130–196)
    • best known for his letter addressed to the Roman Bishop Victor who was attempting to find a consensus about the proper date to celebrate Easter re Quartodecimanism.

I may edit or add to this


Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:47 pm
by Kapyong
Gday MrMacSon, and all

May I mention Aristides of Athens ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apology_of_Aristides

His apology was written maybe 125, maybe 140, or so (some confusion over which emperor.)
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... s-kay.html

He has something very interesting to say about 'the Gospel' :
Aristides wrote: The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it.
It appears from this that a singular un-named written Gospel arrived in Athens a short time before Aristides wrote (I checked the meaning with some Syriac readers.)


Kapyong

Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:55 pm
by MrMacSon
Kapyong wrote: May I mention Aristides of Athens? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apology_of_Aristides

His apology was written ~125, maybe 140, or so (some confusion over which emperor) http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... s-kay.html

He has something very interesting to say about 'the Gospel' :
Aristides wrote: The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it.
It appears from this that a singular un-named written Gospel arrived in Athens a short time before Aristides wrote...
Excellent! Cheers!

Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:00 pm
by arnoldo
Kapyong wrote:Gday MrMacSon, and all

May I mention Aristides of Athens ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apology_of_Aristides

His apology was written maybe 125, maybe 140, or so (some confusion over which emperor.)
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... s-kay.html

He has something very interesting to say about 'the Gospel' :
Aristides wrote: The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it.
It appears from this that a singular un-named written Gospel arrived in Athens a short time before Aristides wrote (I checked the meaning with some Syriac readers.)


Kapyong
Here's the second mention of the Gospel. . .

And if you would read, O King, you may judge the glory of His presence from the holy gospel writing, as it is called among themselves. He had twelve disciples, who after His ascension to heaven went forth into the provinces of the whole world, and declared His greatness. As for instance, one of them traversed the countries about us, proclaiming the doctrine of the truth. From this it is, that they who still observe the righteousness enjoined by their preaching are called Christians.
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/arist ... _trans.htm

The writer is possibly erroneously refering to Paul as one of the twelve disciples.

Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:24 pm
by GakuseiDon
Kapyong wrote:May I mention Aristides of Athens ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apology_of_Aristides

His apology was written maybe 125, maybe 140, or so (some confusion over which emperor.)
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... s-kay.html

He has something very interesting to say about 'the Gospel' :
Aristides wrote: The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it.
It appears from this that a singular un-named written Gospel arrived in Athens a short time before Aristides wrote (I checked the meaning with some Syriac readers.)
Why Athens? Reading a 'short time was preached among them', it seems to me that the 'them' appear to be the Hebrews, i.e. presumably the Jews in Judea.

What I find interesting is Aristides' proofs against the various gods. He writes:
  • It is impossible that a god should be bound or mutilated; and if it be otherwise, he is indeed miserable....

    If then Asklepios were a god, and, when he was struck with lightning, was unable to help himself, how should he be able to give help to others? But that a divine nature should be in want or be destroyed by lightning is impossible...

    If then Dionysos were a god, and when he was being killed was unable to help himself, how is it possible that he should help others?..

    And after him they bring forward another god and call him Apollon. And they say that he is jealous and inconstant, and at times he holds the bow and quiver, and again the lyre and plectron. And he utters oracles for men that he may receive rewards from them. Is then this god in need of rewards? But it is an insult that all these things should be found with a god...

    And again they say of Tammuz that he is a god... And if he could not help himself, how can he take thought for the human race? But that a god should be an adulterer or a hunter or should die by violence is impossible...

    And of Osiris also they say that he is a serviceable god. And he was killed by Typhon and was unable to help himself. But it is well known that this cannot be asserted of divinity. And further, they say of his brother Typhon that he is a god, who killed his brother and was killed by his brother's son and by his bride, being unable to help himself. And how, pray, is he a god who does not save himself?
Aristides doesn't seem to consider that the same objections can be made about Jesus, which is strange to me, given that he calls Jesus God incarnated.

Aristides also writes this about the Greeks' view of the gods:
  • For the narratives about their gods are some of them myths, and some of them nature-poems, and some of them hymns and elegies. The hymns indeed and elegies are empty words and noise. But these nature-poems, even if they be made as they say, still those are not gods who do such things and suffer and endure such things. And those myths are shallow tales with no depth whatever in them.
If the above was written around the 120s CE, it suggests that the defence of Christianity using philosophy rather than the gospels had started to take precedent. Certainly the rest of the extant Christian apologies in the Second Century didn't seem to see the Gospels as the convincing argument to convert pagans.

Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:52 pm
by Kapyong
Konnichiwa GakuseiDon,
Kapyong wrote:May I mention Aristides of Athens ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apology_of_Aristides

His apology was written maybe 125, maybe 140, or so (some confusion over which emperor.)
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... s-kay.html

He has something very interesting to say about 'the Gospel' :
Aristides wrote: The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it.
It appears from this that a singular un-named written Gospel arrived in Athens a short time before Aristides wrote (I checked the meaning with some Syriac readers.)
GakuseiDon wrote: Why Athens? Reading a 'short time was preached among them', it seems to me that the 'them' appear to be the Hebrews, i.e. presumably the Jews in Judea.
Well, I figured Aristides would have learned about Christianity and the gospel story from his local Christian community - so he would be aware from them that the gospel had only arrived there recently.

I suppose you could be right - that he means the gospel was new to the Christians in general - that would suggest that the gospel carried the feature of 'newness' as it spread.

Either way, I find it a fascinating clue to the timing of the spread of the gospels - that the gospel was new in his time.


Kapyong

Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:11 pm
by Ben C. Smith
Kapyong wrote:Gday MrMacSon, and all

May I mention Aristides of Athens ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apology_of_Aristides

His apology was written maybe 125, maybe 140, or so (some confusion over which emperor.)
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... s-kay.html

He has something very interesting to say about 'the Gospel' :
Aristides wrote: The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it.
It appears from this that a singular un-named written Gospel arrived in Athens a short time before Aristides wrote (I checked the meaning with some Syriac readers.)
What exactly did your Syriac readers say about this passage? In the English translation, I do not read anything about the gospel being recent. In the English translation, the gospel was preached among them for a short time (which is different than saying that it has been preached as of a short time ago). But I do not know Syriac, and perhaps the English translation is misleading.

Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:25 pm
by MrMacSon
For the uninitiated: Aristides of Athens ought not be confused with Aelius Aristides -
  • Publius Aelius Aristides Theodorus (Greek: Αἴλιος Ἀριστείδης; 117–181 CE) -

    "a Greek orator and author considered to be a prime example of the Second Sophistic (a group of celebrated and highly influential orators who flourished from the reign of Nero until c.230 AD/CE). More than fifty of his orations and other works survive, dating from the reigns of Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius. His early success was interrupted by a decades-long series of illnesses for which he sought relief by divine communion with the god Asclepius, effected by interpreting and obeying the dreams that came to him while 'sleeping in the god’s sacred precinct'; he later recorded this experience in a series of discourses titled 'Sacred Tales' (Hieroi Logoi)."

    "Aristides was born at Hadriani in northern Mysia. His father, a wealthy landowner, arranged for Aristides to have the finest education available. Aristides first studied under Alexander of Cotiaeum (later a tutor of Marcus Aurelius) at Smyrna, then traveled to various cities to learn from the foremost sophists of the day, including a stay in Athens to hear Herodes Atticus."

Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:37 pm
by Kapyong
Gday Ben C. Smith and all :)
Ben C. Smith wrote:What exactly did your Syriac readers say about this passage? In the English translation, I do not read anything about the gospel being recent. In the English translation, the gospel was preached among them for a short time (which is different than saying that it has been preached as of a short time ago). But I do not know Syriac, and perhaps the English translation is misleading.
I asked in the Syriac people forum,
and I received a reply from a David Taylor which included the following comments:
David Taylor wrote:... the passage is found on p.4 ll.1-2 of Harris' Syriac edition, and he translates as:

'This is taught from that Gospel which a little while ago was spoken among them as being preached'.

This is not terribly elegant but it is not too bad (perhaps better to read '...ago, it is said among them, was proclaimed').

The phrase 'a little while ago' is literally 'which before a little time'.

I would thus suspect that the sense of the Syriac is that the Christians acknowledge that the Gospel was only proclaimed / revealed publicly for the first time a short time before. So yes, the text states that the Gospel is relatively new, though the exact meaning of the sentence is slightly different from the translation you quote.

Of course, such statements do not by themselves prove anything about the date of the text - cf the well known case of the correspondence between King Abgar of Edessa and Christ.

Kapyong

Re: the Christian Church Fathers with texts to 155 AD/CE

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:48 pm
by Ben C. Smith
Kapyong wrote:Gday Ben C. Smith and all :)
Ben C. Smith wrote:What exactly did your Syriac readers say about this passage? In the English translation, I do not read anything about the gospel being recent. In the English translation, the gospel was preached among them for a short time (which is different than saying that it has been preached as of a short time ago). But I do not know Syriac, and perhaps the English translation is misleading.
I asked in the Syriac people forum,
and I received a reply from a David Taylor which included the following comments:
David Taylor wrote:... the passage is found on p.4 ll.1-2 of Harris' Syriac edition, and he translates as:

'This is taught from that Gospel which a little while ago was spoken among them as being preached'.

This is not terribly elegant but it is not too bad (perhaps better to read '...ago, it is said among them, was proclaimed').

The phrase 'a little while ago' is literally 'which before a little time'.

I would thus suspect that the sense of the Syriac is that the Christians acknowledge that the Gospel was only proclaimed / revealed publicly for the first time a short time before. So yes, the text states that the Gospel is relatively new, though the exact meaning of the sentence is slightly different from the translation you quote.

Of course, such statements do not by themselves prove anything about the date of the text - cf the well known case of the correspondence between King Abgar of Edessa and Christ.
Kapyong
Very good. Thanks for that. It would appear that the English translation is misleading, as your David Taylor seems to be saying when he writes that "the exact meaning of the sentence is slightly different from the translation."