Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Apologies if this has been discussed previously...

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/marcion1.html wrote: 4: 16 And he came to Nazareth,
and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day,
and sat down.
21 And he began to speak to them,
and all wondered at the words which proceeded out of his mouth.
23 And he said unto them,
Ye will surely say unto me this proverb,
Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum,
do also here in thy country.

Why is meant here by "thy country"?

gmx wrote:Apologies if this has been discussed previously...

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/marcion1.html wrote: 4: 16 And he came to Nazareth,
and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day,
and sat down.
21 And he began to speak to them,
and all wondered at the words which proceeded out of his mouth.
23 And he said unto them,
Ye will surely say unto me this proverb,
Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum,
do also here in thy country.

Why is meant here by "thy country"?

(BGT Luk 4:23) "τῇ πατρίδι σου" (tē patridi sou) means "the fatherland/homeland/home-town/part-of-the-country of-you".

DCH (lunch break boss)

Does that mean Marcion referred to Nazareth as Jesus' homeland? Is that surprising? I mean, if he descended from heaven into Capernaum, how could Nazareth be his homeland?

How about that, Mythicists?

gmx wrote:Does that mean Marcion referred to Nazareth as Jesus' homeland? Is that surprising? I mean, if he descended from heaven into Capernaum, how could Nazareth be his homeland?

I do not think those exact words are attested for Marcion: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1765#p39308.

It's the Apocalypse today, Ben has gone over to the Mythicists.

Adam wrote:It's the Apocalypse today, Ben has gone over to the Mythicists.

I have been sympathetic to mythicism ever since reading Wells in college. I was essentially a Jesus agnostic for most of my twenties. I became fairly convinced of Jesus' historicity in my thirties. I still favor it somewhat, but that does not mean I cannot change my mind. And it most certainly does not mean that I have to read the Marcionite gospel as containing words that are actually unattested for it.

My apologies. I had thought you were more firmly on the Historicist side than you ever were.
Is ANYBODY here on my side? I'm in rare company between Winn and Bernard, I guess?

gmx wrote:Does that mean Marcion referred to Nazareth as Jesus' homeland? Is that surprising? I mean, if he descended from heaven into Capernaum, how could Nazareth be his homeland?

That Nazareth passage makes little sense coming as it does before the events in Capernaum -- given that it refers to those events as if they are already past. There is a line of scholarly tradition that argues this Nazareth passage has been relocated or interpolated into an earlier version of Luke or into Marcion's version of Luke.

• “Discovering” an original gospel behind canonical Luke and the gospel of Marcion
• The earliest gospels 6(c) – Luke’s Gospel (Couchoud)

neilgodfrey wrote:

gmx wrote:Does that mean Marcion referred to Nazareth as Jesus' homeland? Is that surprising? I mean, if he descended from heaven into Capernaum, how could Nazareth be his homeland?

That Nazareth passage makes little sense coming as it does before the events in Capernaum -- given that it refers to those events as if they are already past. There is a line of scholarly tradition that argues this Nazareth passage has been relocated or interpolated into an earlier version of Luke or into Marcion's version of Luke.

“Discovering” an original gospel behind canonical Luke and the gospel of Marcion

That is my own working hypothesis: both Luke and Marcion reworked a proto-gospel.