Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

On the common understanding that the 'Canaanite' woman was 'pushy' -

This story is one of only two or three recorded instances where Jesus was involved with a Gentile. It is a most unusual event given the context of the times – when,
1. A woman never approached a man
2. If a woman approached a man, she was not to look at him nor respond in conversation
3. The woman in this story is a Gentile and should have known to keep away from a Jew

According to the customs, she should have never approached Jesus let alone ask a favour of him. But this woman not only approached Jesus, she spoke out to him, and while asking for his help, cleverly talked back to him! An outrageous act!

We see her as a pushy woman. She doesn’t let custom, expectations, rules stand in her way. In 1st century Middle Eastern culture to do so was to risk your life. Why do you think she took such a risk? Yes, she was desperate to save her daughter. She must have heard of Jesus’ reputation as a healer. She breaks all the rules and puts herself at risk and becomes vulnerable before Jesus. http://www.freecomchurch.org/sermon/the ... ite-woman/

But where is the quote from a Syriac speaker?

Secret Alias wrote:

However, that still doesn't serve as proof that this is the earliest answer.

But it's a start. Can we at least start with the parallels between Mark and Luke (Mark pushing the narrative much further back than Luke). How is this explained by Marcan primacy? I think this long diatribe was an attempt to put that prejudice in perspective. This narrative is one clear example where Luke is closer to the ur-text.

Maybe. Personally, I was mostly leaning towards the model that gLuke is a rewritten gospel of Marcion, while the latter is based on some older "Luke" text which may very well reach very far back. At least further back than the insertion of the Bethsaida section (6:45-8:26) into gMark.

Secret Alias wrote:Jesus comes down from heaven in Marcion and goes to THAT synagogue. Luke reflects that and Mark and Matthew (I assume) rework the narrative into a 'they know Jesus' narrative. Why a 'they know Jesus narrative'? Because the Marcionites say that they rejected him because he was a stranger. What lies beyond that is anyone's guess. But the prehistory is:

1. Marcion's gospel this narrative at the very beginning
2. Luke's gospel this narrative at the very beginning (relative to Marcion)
3. Mark pushes the narrative to chapter 6

Good enough? Clear enough?

Sounds like a possibility. Maybe, it's the Bethsaida section that's actually earlier, which would bring these verses we talk about back to the front.

Might we have more traces of the super gospel than are realised? Jesus and the clay sparrows and similar stories?

Ben C. Smith wrote:

Ulan wrote:And you know that I don't think that "Nazarene" in gMark has anything to do with "Nazareth".

I have come to that understanding, as well. However, it makes Mark 1.9 rather confusing.

Isn't this the only time "Nazareth" is used in this form in gMark?

Thanks Ulan. For the rest “Cananaean” cf Simon (Καναναῖον), from an Aramaic term meaning “zealous one” (qanʾānā ʾ) or pushy. Another example of Mark being at the very back of the line (chronologically latest) in a series of rewrites.

JoeWallack wrote:I present this as a theory. Suppose "Mark" (author) starts with a theme/conclusion that every natural supposed group in Jesus' supposed setting had a negative reaction to something "Mark" thinks was important about Jesus:

Group Identification	Expectation regarding Jesus (one of their own)	Opposite result	Artistic touch of irony
Disciples	Followers of Jesus	Abandon Jesus	The followers of Jesus run away from him to "save" themselves.
Jewish religious leaders	Identify and promote the Messiah to save the Jews	Identify and convict the Messiah which convicts the Jews	Jewish religious leaders make fun of Jesus not being able to prophesy exactly as his prophecy of Peter's denial is happening right under their long noses
Jesus' family	Unconditional support	Unconditional opposition	They don't want Jesus seen or heard. Who is his real family?
Jesus' hometown	Proud of one of their own	Embarrassed by one of their own	Questioning the work of the carpenter's hands

If you accept that "Mark" starts with a theme here (the why) than the how is secondary.

Thanks for the chart, Joe. You seem to have them stored away in your pocket, ready to flourish at a moment's notice.

All right, so I can agree with the general premise; and I have said before that nobody does abandonment and rejection like Mark.

Here are the main questions that spring to mind when I read this pericope:

1. Why do the townspeople reject Jesus when the pericope specifies no reason?
2. Why are they said not to believe, even though they know Jesus can do miracles?
3. Why does Jesus do a few miracles anyway, despite this disbelief? (In other words, if the point is rejection, why not have Jesus shake the dust off his feet and do no miracles there at all?)

Your observations go a long way toward answering #1: Mark simply needed to work in the rejection theme, and how he got there is of lesser importance than than getting there.

But let me share with you a possible scenario for what is going on overall, and how it might answer all three of the above questions at once.

I think that part of Mark's intent is to react to various Jesus/Christ groups: the Twelve (most notably), the Judeans/Jews (particularly their leaders), the desposyni, and others. Mark casts these groups in a rather poor light (and later Matthew and Luke will cast the Jews in an even worse light while maybe easing up a bit on the Twelve). The key word here is "react": there is not much need to come down hard on these groups unless others are extolling them.

This pericope looks to me like it is building upon a previous version of the story. In the previous version, Jesus comes into his hometown, impresses everybody ("what wisdom and what miracles!"), actually works miracles with no qualification, and is generally viewed as a hometown hero. There is no rejection, no disbelief.

Now Mark comes along, with his theme that none of those people from Jesus' ministry really understood what was going on, and he throws rejection and disbelief into the mix. But he did not delete all of the original story; he simply modified it (much like Matthew and Luke modify his stories). Now the townspeople are still astonished at Jesus, and still credit him with wisdom and power, but they reject him all the same, as per the Marcan theme. Now the townspeople, who are probably only implied as believing in the original story anyway (so no outright deletion necessary), are said not to believe. Now Jesus still does miracles, as in the original version, but the emphasis is on the miracles that he could not do.

1. Why do the townspeople reject Jesus when the pericope specifies no reason? Because, as Joe says, Mark is interested in having people reject Jesus, and he does not always feel that supplying a cogent reason is necessary.
2. Why are they said not to believe, even though they know Jesus can do miracles? Because the original story had them recognizing Jesus' power, but Mark has added the unbelief artificially.
3. Why does Jesus do a few miracles anyway, despite this disbelief? (In other words, if the point is rejection, why not have Jesus shake the dust off his feet and do no miracles there at all?) Because there were miracles worked in the original story, and Mark has added the part about the ones that were not worked.

Ben.

Ulan wrote:

Ben C. Smith wrote:

Ulan wrote:And you know that I don't think that "Nazarene" in gMark has anything to do with "Nazareth".

I have come to that understanding, as well. However, it makes Mark 1.9 rather confusing.

Isn't this the only time "Nazareth" is used in this form in gMark?

It is the only time the town name is used at all in Mark, I believe.

The term Nazarene is used in Mark 1.24; 14.67; 16.6.

For those with higher consciousnesses I think I have a way of reconciling the presence of the pushy woman in the (original) Jerusalem visitation. Most scholars note that the Canaanite woman narrative develops from Psalm 68 LXX which interestingly is also put in Jesus's mouth while visiting the temple in John chapter 2 - https://books.google.com/books?id=tLjeB ... an&f=false

I think this is leading us to the super gospel dovetailing with the strange story of Mary living in the temple in countless traditions including the ProtoEvangelium of James, Mandaean Scriptures and even the Quran. My guess is that the "woman" who appears as Jesus descends from heaven was the gnostic Sophia. Her "pushiness" or zeal caused her to desire the Father (as in the Adonis myths preserved in Ovid). Jesus came to redeem her. The story is preserved also in the John Book of the Mandaeans (for those who think we need "real texts" to proceed). But thus makes sense from the Valentinian perspective too. The Catholic gospels were arranged to "shut out" the opinions of the heresies and make them seem silly. That was the only function of the fourfold arrangement. Apparently it was quite successful

Ben C. Smith wrote:That is not how I read "faith/belief" elsewhere in Mark, at least not in conjunction with miracles:

Mark 2.4-5: 4 Being unable to get to Him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above Him; and when they had dug an opening, they let down the pallet on which the paralytic was lying. 5 And Jesus seeing their faith says to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
Mark 5.30-34: 30 Immediately Jesus, perceiving in Himself that the power proceeding from Him had gone forth, turned around in the crowd and said, “Who touched My garments?” 31 And His disciples said to Him, “You see the crowd pressing in on You, and You say, ‘Who touched Me?’” 32 And He looked around to see the woman who had done this. 33 But the woman fearing and trembling, aware of what had happened to her, came and fell down before Him and told Him the whole truth. 34 And He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace and be healed of your affliction.”
Mark 10.50-52: 50 Throwing aside his cloak, he jumped up and came to Jesus. 51 And answering him, Jesus said, “What do you want Me to do for you?” And the blind man said to Him, “Rabboni, I want to regain my sight!” 52 And Jesus said to him, “Go; your faith has made you well.” Immediately he regained his sight and began following Him on the road.

In other contexts, he is able to work miracles even while surrounded by disbelief or hostility (Mark 3.5; 4.39-40).

But here? Here the townspeople believe he can do miracles; their astonishment is at how he does them; they do not express doubt that he does them. The start of the pericope looks like another Marcan story of faith leading to healing. And yet, without warning, the pericope turns, and we find Jesus marveling at their disbelief.

Your guess, Kunigunde, at what this disbelief consists of is a good one, maybe even a great one. But I think it is still a guess.

In the parts of John that you quoted, the disbelief is patently obvious. They disbelieve Jesus' unlikely words ("the bread that came down from heaven"). No issue there.

But here, in Mark, the disbelief is specifically mentioned as the reason for Jesus not being able to do (many) miracles; that seems to tie it in to those other Marcan pericopes in which faith is the basis for miracles, but it does not fit in that context very well.

I agree that we find verses which seem to express a different idea, but basically the concept seems to me as follows.

Mark 11:23-24

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it (ἐλάβετε – active – you have taken it), and it will be yours.

first - believe that you have received it/will receive it
second - then it will happen

Mark 5:27-29 - the prototype: the bleeding woman

She had heard the reports about Jesus and came up behind him in the crowd and touched his garment. 28 For she said, “If I touch even his garments, I will be made well (σωθήσομαι - saved).” 29 And immediately the flow of blood dried up, and she felt in her body that she was healed of her disease.

Mark 5:36 - Jairus, the successor of the woman

But overhearing what they said, Jesus said to the ruler of the synagogue, “Do not fear, only believe.”

Mark 6 – the unbelief

1 He went away from there and came to his hometown
2 And on the Sabbath he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things? ...“
5 And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them.

Writing from 1000 feet above the land. Here in Ephrem's hymn is where the play on words on the geographic place names:

Capharnaum renounced Him, and He renounced it in all the woes. In Sodom and in Tyre He reproached the haughty land." Our Lord put to shame the Canaanite woman whose love bellowed out so that she asked Him.

Ephrem puns on kpr, "to renounce", and the name of the city of Capharnaum, which he then uses as a symbol of the Jewish rejection of Jesus (the same root is used to describe Peter's 'denial'). For 'the Caananite woman' it is very similar the 'zeal' of her love is described in great detail.